In God’s Presence, Pt. 5

Ronald Weinland

January 22, 2022

This will be Part 5 of the current series In God’s Presence.

Again, keeping in mind as we go through this series it’s about coming to grasp in a deeper way, hopefully, in a more appreciative and thankful way, the calling we have, and not to take things for granted, and to understand how awesome it is of all people on earth through all time, of 6,000 years nearly now, that we have the ability to come before God’s presence in any time we want. I believe with all my being we don’t even begin to grasp that, how great that really is, how awesome it is, what that really means in the sense of the uniqueness of our calling. But we can grow in that and become more appreciative and more thankful and understanding.

I couldn’t help but think about that this morning, of the greatness of Almighty God. It’s something we can’t comprehend. It’s something we’ll ever be growing in, and our minds just can’t grasp certain things there. But what we’re able to grasp is so incredible, it truly is.

So again, we’re exceedingly blessed to be able to come into God’s presence on a continual basis, but I immediately think about all the people – not just in 2,000 years, but since I’ve been in the Church in 1969 – whom I’ve known and have gone by the wayside. Choices and decisions people make. That includes hundreds of ministers, which is mind-boggling!

People who were given opportunity to be taught, to be trained, to be worked with, to go to Ambassador, to have all those awesome blessings of life and then to be given a responsibility to serve God’s people and what they did with that. There’s a judgment there in so many cases because of how it was handled that is far greater than, as a whole, than we can comprehend at times.

So again, we look at the Israelites. I think when I was called early on and it was given in sermons that way and people would talk about it and it was like, “How could they have done some of the things they did, the Israelites. So hard-headed.” You look at that and you realize the Church, what we have done is so much worse than what they did. It really is! I mean, it’s incredible to think about it and to understand why.

They were carnal. They were physical. It was natural. For us when we’re called and we have God’s spirit, especially the impregnation of God’s spirit, that is such a hideous thing to let it go by the wayside, to think about the sacrifice of Christ, which people don’t think about that as they do that because it’s no longer real to them in the sense of understanding what they’re doing, that they’re killing him again in a way that there’s a judgment there. Can they even come back from that? And I think that’s a part of what God is revealing to us, to help us come at more one with Him, to be able to understand things of judgment.

Because a lot of our training is about judgment and our ability to learn to judge things from God’s perspective, according to God’s plan. Not from the way we see it but with what comes with a unity and agreement and God’s spirit with His purpose for us and why there are things that have to be the way they are.

This is not owed to anyone, and it would be a huge thing to just try to give individuals of His spirit just because we like them, or because we have fond memories of certain things that were done early on, and families have battles in this in their lives sometimes when they come to a point where someone begins to go off on a tangent and do certain things and it’s like, whatever we can do to save them, to bring them back. It doesn’t work that way. It just doesn’t work that way. We have to learn how to judge those matters.

So, that’ll come out more in the sermon as we go along as well.

In Parts 2, 3, and 4 of this series we have been reviewing the number of times that God told the children of Israel they had tested Him by rebelling and murmuring against Him. Now, their rebelling and murmuring was directed toward Moses. But what we’re to grasp from that, it was toward God! That’s the important thing. Things that were said against Herbert Armstrong, they were toward God. It’s a matter of God’s working in people’s lives and how He works within the Church, and if we don’t grasp that we can do certain things. If we say something in a wrong way, in an evil way toward thinking wrongly toward someone in the Body, the Body of Christ, it’s toward God! Who are we to judge someone else in that respect?

Now, we sometimes have the responsibility of certain judgment, of how we have to act upon certain things because it’s our responsibility to do so, but not to condemn someone. But it’s for the desire of seeing everyone succeed and excel and repent, whatever is needed to grow and change, and that’s a different mindset.

So last Sabbath we ended on number nine, which is the account of their murmuring because they had no meat, and God gave them meat; He gave them quail for a month. He said, “Basically by doing this, it’s going to be coming out of your nostrils.” And basically, what that had to do with was what we talked about last week when you think of things that begin to take place and the smell and the stench.

It's like anybody who’s had this experience, which I’ve had a conversation here I think it was last week or the week before with someone about cleaning chickens. If you’ve ever been involved in dunking chickens down into hot boiling water—now, after they’re dead, after their head has come off—you dip them down there and it helps you. The feathers come off easily that way, and that’s plucking a chicken.

That smell is so bad I’ll guarantee you not a one of you would want chicken that night, and maybe not for a week or two at least. You don’t want to smell it, you don’t want it, you don’t want to because that is in your mind it’s so bad. For them didn’t take long. After a while they’d gorged themselves on it so much, but the way they went about it and what they did, the smell, the stench had to be so horrible that after a while it’s the same sort of thing. You don’t even want to see another quail.

So that’s what God basically told them. “That’s what you’re going to learn within a month here.” Did they learn anything? No. But anyway. Hard-headed carnal Israelites, and sometimes with God’s spirit we’re just as bad or even worse if we’re not careful.

So now we’re going to look at that final time that God was referring to when He said, “these ten times,” basically, that the Israelites had tested Him.

So, I think it’s good to review some of this, even though we’ve gone through some of it. We’ll add a little bit more in some of the story here as well, but it’s good to go back through this again just to be reminded of how we got to where we were.

Numbers 13:1-3. So, this is the tenth time about Israel’s failure to trust God to lead them into the promised land. After all that He’d done. Mind-boggling! Seeing the things that they did. But we’re to learn from that too. All that we’ve seen. If we don’t grasp when we have God’s spirit, not able to hold on to what He’s given to us and see the awesomeness of our calling, well, we’re actually in worse shape than they were.

So, we’re going to review portions of the story that led up to God making this statement about the ten times. We’re going through this beginning again in Numbers 13:1-3 now. Then the Eternal spoke to Moses, saying, Send men to spy out the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the children of Israel. For each tribe of their fathers you shall send a man, with everyone a leader among them. So, Moses sent them from the wilderness of Paran according to the command of the Eternal, all of them who were heads of the children of Israel.

A lot of responsibility, in that respect. God has given responsibility to different ones at different times, and the history of the Church is it hasn’t been handled well. Never. Never! As a whole with human nature, as human beings, most often it isn’t handled well. Because it goes to the head, importance, “I am important. Look at me.” Sometimes the ministry has made mistakes, huge mistakes in promoting that and being the example of that and making them feel that way.

It was done with Ambassador College as well. Students would go back into church areas thinking they were better than, more important than brethren who had been called, who had maybe been in the Church five, ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty years. Incredible! Hideous. Sick. Perverted. Anyway, we have to learn from those things because there are incredible lessons in there.

So, “Send men to spy out the land of Canaan which I am giving to the children of Israel.” Again, from each tribe and the leader among them, and so he sent them out from this particular area.

Verse 17, jumping on down. Then Moses sent them to spy out the land of Canaan, and said to them, Go up this way into the south, and go up into the mountains, and see what the land is like and whether the people who dwell there are strong or weak. Now, well to tell them this, all for a purpose. Because some are going to look at it in the wrong way once they see it because of their thinking, because their thinking is wrong, because they still haven’t learned, still don’t trust God.

…few or many; and whether the land they dwell in is good or bad. Now, pretty much any land that has something growing in it is far better than what they came out of and where they’re going. It’s much better.

…and whether the cities they inhabit are like camps or strong holds. In other words, “What’s it going to take when we go there? What are we going to have to do? We need to focus in on these things” and, basically, with Moses’ mind “we’re going to do it, but we need to know these things.”

So again, like camps or strongholds or whether the land is rich or poor, and whether there are forests there or not. Be of good courage. So, he told them this as they were going to go out into an area that basically was enemy territory. They didn’t want Israelites there. They wanted nothing to do with them. It was a dangerous thing they were doing. It wasn’t safe to do this. They, obviously, would be recognized as not from there. Very obvious.

Think about us. Over and over again throughout scripture that’s a message God gives, “Be strong and of good courage.” We learn that on a spiritual plane what that means even more so. We recognize that that strength and that ability to have that kind of courage or be encouraged is in God’s purpose and God’s plan and God’s calling and the power of Almighty God living and dwelling in us. We’re going to go out into an area where what we do and how we do it isn’t going to be well received. It’s not going to be liked.

Now, we can walk among those, talking about the world and so forth, and sometimes the less they know about us, the better, but after a while if you’re around them a lot, whether it be at work or other areas there are things they’re going to pick up on, they’re going to recognize and they’re going to see, and it isn’t always good, obviously.

It says, and bring some of the fruit of the land. Now, the time of the season was of the first ripe grapes.

Then verse 23—Then they came to the valley of Eshcol, and there cut down a branch with one cluster of grapes, and they carried it between two of them on a pole. Amazing! Now, I’ve been to a lot of vineyards, seen a lot of grapes, but I’ve never seen anything that you would have to cut and carry on a pole between two people like that. Now, you could say it was so you wouldn’t damage the grapes that were there, but there’s more to the story than that. It was something to behold, obviously.

…they also brought some of the pomegranates and figs. And the place was called the valley of Eshcol, because of the cluster, which is what “eshcol” means, it’s “cluster,” which the men of Israel cut down there. Then they returned from spying out the land after forty days. Now, over and over again in scripture, and especially for us—some people enjoy numbers, some people don’t—but it becomes quite obvious in time of all the accounts where God has used that this is a matter of God being involved in this as a matter of judgment, good or bad, whatever it might be. The good depends upon us. The bad depends upon us. Or whomever is within that period of time that is being addressed here.

So, after they had given their report to Moses then Caleb cried out to the people. So, we’re going to jump on down now. This is verse 30—Then Caleb quieted the people before Moses. So, they’re all there, these spies have come back, they’re reporting to Moses, they’ve told him different things here about the area there. Now the people are wanting to know what’s going on and so Caleb is the one, because he was one of the people that went there, obviously.

Verse 30—So Caleb quietened the people before Moses and said, Let us go up at once, and take possession, for we are well able to overcome it, to conquer it, to have the power to do it. Again, his focus was unique, along with Joshua as well, because in their minds they had seen the things God had done and they were moved by it and believed that God would do what He said.

So, verse 31 here—But the men who had gone up with him, with Caleb and Joshua, they said, We are not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we are. They gave the children of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out saying, The land, through which we have gone as spies, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people we saw in it are men of great stature.

Now, there are oftentimes in different stages in people’s lives as they’re on their journey, if you will, through the wilderness and being called by God and having God’s spirit in them, come to a point in time where they feel like the battles are too great and they seek to change some of the environment around them. Sometimes become more liberal, sometimes let up in their lives because the battle seems too strong, too overpowering to them or whatever it might be. It’s a matter of not relying on God again. It’s a matter of not trusting in God to go through whatever we have to go through. We’re God’s. It’s as simple as that. Just like Joshua and Caleb had that mind.

But whether it be people in the Church who began to go off in different directions, it’s the same old story over and over again.

It says, There we saw the nephilim. It’s quoted sometimes as “giants,” but they were the large people, tall people, men of incredible stature, if you will. …the descendants of Anak of the nephilim, and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight. So, their stature was much, much greater than what they were, so they said, “We felt like grasshoppers before them, and we had to look like grasshoppers to them.” That’s basically what they’re saying.

Numbers 14:1—So all the congregation lifted up their voices and cried; and the people wept that night. Incredible. After everything they saw. To me this is so incredible sometimes to look at stories or read stories like this and to look at what they did and how they did it, and to recognize because of ten of them that came back and had this report, negative about everything that was said, and just because two stood up it’s easier. It starts to spread fast, and it spread throughout the camp, this mindset, this thinking where they began to have no hope whatsoever. Incredible. So, they wept that night. They chose to believe the bad report, obviously.

Then all the children of Israel complained against Moses and Aaron. So here we go, they’re complaining, they’re griping about Moses and Aaron and what they’re having to go through and what they’re having to face. And the whole congregation said to them, If only we had died, gotten older, in essence, and died naturally. That’s what they’re talking about. If we just were able to do that in the land of Egypt! Or if only we had died in this wilderness! So again, we talked about this earlier on. It was mentioned how that here is a mindset and a thinking here that is contrary in the sense of what God is offering and giving, and it’s the same old, same old that’s repeated over and over again. Because there are so many stories we could have gone through that you see them doing the exact same things over and over and over again. Yet it’s the way of the history of the Church as well. Incredible.

So, “If only we had died in the land of Egypt.” So, they knew what it was going to take if they went into this promised land. They felt there were a lot of people who were going to die, and we’re going to die, and men are going to die out here and then children are going to be fatherless, and on and on it goes.

Verse 3—Why has the Eternal brought us to this land, to fall by the sword. So again, just a matter of not believing God. We’re confident. If we’re bold, if we recognize what God has called us to and what we’re doing, we don’t have to fear the things around us. Not at all.

So, it says, that our wives and our children should become victims? Would it not be better for us to return to Egypt? So they said to one another, Let us select a leader and return to Egypt. So when there are obstacles there, when there are things they don’t like, they don’t want to address, it’s easier to find someone else to lead them. Not Moses and not Aaron.

That’s really been the history of God’s Church. We’re going to go through some things—it may not be in this sermon—but we have a history of this going on over and over and over again, and some of it is really mind-boggling, that it could be repeated again and again and again by people who had the impregnation of God’s spirit, from leaders who had the impregnation of God’s spirit and began to turn away from God. Incredible. It’s astounding that these things even happened, let alone the Apostasy. That’s what it finally led to.

So again here, verse 19 jumping on down. After all this murmuring, God finally told Moses that He’d simply destroy them, going to destroy them and make a great nation through Moses, a lineage from him. Obviously, we remember the story here of how he pleaded then with God and reiterated some things. It’s part of Moses’ training. God knew what he would do.

But again here, he had a picture in his mind of the purpose of everything that was taking place. Why they were there at this point in time and how the nations will respond. Not toward him or toward the Israelites as much as it was toward God. It was about God. “What are they going to say about You?” God was always in the forefront of his thinking, what God was doing and why He was doing it. He didn’t lose sight of that.

That’s what we have to do. It’s how we become as we grow, what I was mentioning at the beginning here, this mind that has to be in a process of transforming and becoming more and more in tune with, in unity with the mind of God. That is the most awesome blessing, to where when you know that a certain judgment has been made it’s the right one. You can have a strength and a boldness in that because it’s of God. It’s God’s mind. It reflects God. It agrees with the spirit of God. It agrees with the mind and the teaching and the truths of God. It’s not out of kilter with any of them.

This is a point in time where he said, Pardon/forgive the iniquity of this people according to the greatness of Your mercy. Something we have to keep at the forefront of our minds, to understand how merciful God is. To understand that then it’s easy to repent because we understand that God’s merciful, we understand what it means that we have the ability to go before God, and because of the sacrifice of our Passover, Joshua the Christ, we’re able to be forgiven of our sins.

We recognize that mercy from God all of our life in God’s Church, to be able to be forgiven and recognize what an incredible mercy that God gives that we’re able to have this all the time, to be able to continue to come before God’s presence whenever we desire.

…just as You have forgiven this people from Egypt even until now. So, “You’ve been consistent. This is who You are.” Well, this is good for Moses. He was coming more and more into that same mind and agreement with God. “I know who You are. I know what You’re like. I know what You do.” So, he came to the conclusion he needed to come to in the first place.

But indeed, I live, and all the earth, so again here, this is how the Eternal answered. I have pardoned according to your word. But indeed, I live, and all the earth will be filled with the glory of the Eternal. So, it’s just a matter of time and God’s comforting Moses by what He’s saying here, “according to your word.” It’s “Because you agree. Because you see it.” He didn’t say all that but that’s what it was about. It was about Moses learning and growing.

Moses was being molded and fashioned to be a great leader in the Family of God, in the 144,000, and this was necessary, the things he had to go through that were unique to him. We’re all different that are being molded and fashioned by God to fit into specific areas. It’s not a matter of chance with God, it’s a matter of design. As long as individuals yield to that process they will become transformed to be able to be exactly where they’re best fit, where they will be the most excited in life throughout life for all time. It’ll be fulfilling and awesomely meaningful wherever it is in the structure of God’s Temple.

Now, that’s an awesome thing to understand. We have to understand as well that different people go through different things for the specific purpose of this mind becoming changed and transformed to fit into a specific place.

Like any material would be used in a construction site, you have to work with it. You don’t just go get, order a bunch of 2 x 4’s and put them in a house and expect it all to fit properly. You have to work with it. You have to do some cutting, whatever it might be because they’re not all the same. So, you have to work with things to make things come out the way you have designed it to be. On a scale that is so far beyond that that’s hard for us to comprehend, we have to use a measly example of something physical in construction of something that God is doing on a plane that is so far beyond that we can’t even begin to grasp it.

But to understand here why some of these things were taking place, it was for Moses’ sake. It wasn’t about the children of Israel. They weren’t being worked with to be a part of the 144,000. A few of them were, like Caleb, like Joshua. So, they went through unique things to prepare them, and God worked with them individually, not as a congregation, not as a Church like we’ve had for the last 2,000 years in the Church of God with Christ being our High Priest and the process whereby we’re able to be trained, led, guide, directed, molded and fashioned through congregations in different parts of the world. Awesome!

But back then there were some very specific things that God was working with first and foremost in the first 4,000 years that had to be molded and fashioned and prepared. Incredible to grasp and know these things, brethren, it really is. And so, when you read through a story like this, those things, as a whole, are not seen or not addressed. But they need to be seen, they need to be addressed because it’s exciting, it’s awesome to see how God was working with Moses. Because Moses was coming into unity with Him, but he had to go through a process. He had to experience this.

This is so much more about what God was molding and fashioning than it was about the Israelites. It really was. It was about what Moses was going to glean and learn and be molded in through this, and now Joshua and Caleb are being worked with and their opportunities and their time had come where God was working with them, just beginning, as a whole, as it is with Joshua especially. Incredible!

He told him about how His glory was going to fill the earth, if you will. Yet those who have put me to the test now these ten times, and have not listened to My voice… So that’s where we cut off and went into some of the other things. So, here is where the story now reveals what God is going to do as a result of this tenth time that they tested Him and murmured and complained like they did.

Going on, verse 22—yet those who have put Me to the test now these ten times, and have not listened to My voice, they certainly shall not see the land which I swore to their fathers. We’re talking about tens of thousands, hundreds, not just tens. This is a lot of people who weren’t going to come into the promised land. “They shall not see.” Most certainly, they’re not going to see it. …nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it. Because they won’t listen to God.

Now, this has happened throughout the Church, and especially through Philadelphia because that’s our experience for some. Philadelphia, some called during Laodicea, some called afterward. But again, for most of us this is our training. We’re to learn from this. We can learn from this because of our history and what we’ve gone through and seen happen within the Church and recognize there is a judgment here that is strong because of what we’ve been given.

And people, as a whole, when they’ve gotten to those positions have not grasped that because they would have done the same thing whether they could see it or were told it anyway. But that’s another matter, another set of sermons, if you will.

“Nor shall any of those who rejected Me see it.” What do you think the lesson of that is for this end-time, for all who have had opportunity at this time toward the end? Through the Apostasy or since the Apostasy who have been called to be a part, to share with a remnant?

So whether it be one that God is working with or ten or twenty or a hundred or three hundred or whatever it might be, to be molded and fashioned, that’s what’s important. That’s what God is building. And so, just as the beginning part of the structure is important, the continuing part of the structure is important. But what is completed toward the end is important to God because the temple must be built, and it will be built exactly as God purposes. Awesome!

What an awesome thing to be a part of that, to be able to come before God’s presence, to understand and grasp these things on a plane, on a level that it just becomes greater and greater, more awesome as we go along.

But My servant Caleb, because he has a different spirit in him and has followed Me fully… He believed God. That’s why he followed Him fully, and God was working with him. …I will bring into the land where he went; and his descendants shall inherit it. (Now the Amalekites and the Canaanites dwell in the valley.) So, tomorrow turn and move out into the wilderness by the way of the Red Sea. So, God moved them back and forth at different areas there at different times, and here is another movement, of what was taking place.

And the Eternal spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying, How long shall I bear with this evil congregation who complain against Me? I have heard the complaints which the children of Israel make against Me. So again, to be learned from. So we know the answer. Just as Moses responded to God in a right way, in a powerful way, we know what God is like, we know why He did these things, His mercy, His patience, and what we’re to learn from it on a spiritual plane especially.

That’s why the questions are asked. So that we can learn from what God said. It wasn’t just for them at that time, it’s for all periods of time, for people to learn from the lessons, from the question being asked.

Numbers 14:28—So say to them, As I live, says the Eternal, just as you have spoken in My hearing, so I will do to you. The carcasses of you who complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness; all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above. Incredible. Twenty years old and above except for Caleb, Joshua, Moses we know of a certainty. God identifies and talks about them in that regard. But as far as a congregation of Israel, those who are twenty years of age and above, they’re not coming into the promised land. Incredible.

I think about God’s judgment and things in the end-time in the scattered Church, in the scattered Body, and especially individuals who have had opportunity to be called into a remnant and what they’ve done with it. It’s not a small thing. That’s why some things have been said as strong as they have been. Because this is about the mind and the purpose of God Almighty.

…except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun, you shall by no means enter the land which I swore I would make you dwell in. So, now He’s pulling out two that He mentions by name out of all the people twenty years and above. Incredible. We know there were, well, look at Moses, he died. He didn’t get to go in either, but that’s another story.

Anyway, You shall by no means enter the land which I swore I would make you dwell in. But your little ones, whom you said would be victims… Remember, they said, “Why should this happen that our children, because we have to go fight, they’re going to be the victims of this because we’re going to get killed in battle and they’re going to be left fatherless, and what’s going to happen to them then?” So, God says, “I’m going to take care of them.” That’s basically what He’s telling them.

Your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in, and they shall know the land which you have despised. Now, they didn’t think they despised it. They didn’t even know what it was for sure. Now, they chose to believe that it was bad mainly because of the kind of stature of the people who were there, and it might be a whole lot better than kind of roaming around in the desert.

It’s some pretty barren places down through there. It's not a real pleasant place until you get farther north, until you get farther into that. Then all of a sudden it just starts changing quickly. Amazing. That’s what they saw as they went into that land.

Verse 32—But as for you, your carcasses shall fall in the wilderness. And your sons shall be shepherds in the wilderness forty years. They’re going to continue doing this now with the flocks, with the cattle, with whatever they have there, and they’re going to have to work with them because they’re not vast areas.

I still think of a town we were travelling through in Israel there and as soon as we got a little farther south, about to the last third of the southern part of Israel, when you get to this one area it becomes more and more sparce and you see young people, different ones out there with goats, sheep, whatever throughout the hillsides there. Because the reason they’re out there herding them and so forth was to take them to different areas where they can graze. Because it’s pretty sparce so they have to go with them and take them to one area and another in order to be able to do that. This is what they were doing. It was work.

It wasn’t just a matter of like I did as a kid where we had about 200 sheep and had to let them out of a pen and go into an area and let them loose for a time to graze, and then gather them back up and gather them into a pen because they could graze anywhere because it was all lush and green. They didn’t have that. They had to move them around to different areas. Incredible.

And your sons shall be shepherds in the wilderness forty years and bear the brunt of your infidelity, until your carcases are consumed in the wilderness. So, “They’re going to bear this. They’re going to bear because of what you have done, having to be out here all this time to fulfill this period of forty years because of what you did, while you die out here. Because none of you are going in.” Incredible.

According to the number of the days which you spied out the land, God’s judgment, forty days. Now, He knew all along what they were going to do. He knew exactly what they were going to do. This was a part of God’s purpose, a part of God’s design to allow them to do exactly what He knew they were going to do. You think, well, is that fair? Yeah, it’s a part of God’s design and a part of God’s purpose and He molds and fashions and it’s their choice. They have to live with their choice, what their choices are.

We all do. We’re responsible for our choices, not for somebody else’s. Now, sometimes we may suffer because of somebody else’s choices, and that’s a part of life. But nothing is owed to us. That’s why we have to fight for what God has given to us with all of our being and be thankful all along the way and see God in it.

…according to the number of days which you spied out the land, forty days, for a day for a year you shall bear your iniquities for forty years, and you shall know My rejection. Well, it’s, the word is “opposition,” even more so, “You will know My opposition to you for what you have done.”

I the Eternal have spoken this; I will surely do so to this evil congregation who have gathered together against Me. In this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.

Now, it’s a matter of a prophetic parallel to this very thing, to this prophetic type for this end-time regarding God’s Church. Think about some of this. That there are going to be many who will not be allowed to enter the promised land for which they were committed in the beginning, just as the Israelites were committed to leaving Egypt. But something along the journey began to change for them. In this case here, primarily, as it were, when these things began to happen, to become a part of 144,000.

Then in time we began to have others come along that are being molded and fashioned, opportunity to be the framework, if you will, of God’s Church that is able to go on into a new age. Awesome to be a part of either or whatever is God’s purpose.

Now to understand that some of those because others were rejected because of what they did, because they gave up their crowns, God is offering it to others. We have time because it takes time to mold and fashion others to be prepared for those crowns. It’s awesome to understand what God does, why He does it, His purpose and everything else that’s there. It’s awesome.

But others also who could have had opportunity, again here, to enter the Millennium. Because there have been others who are no longer with us who would have had opportunity. Not to become a part of the 144,000 but to enter the Millennium – but will not be allowed to do so. As much as what God did to them, He is going to do at the end here for people who had opportunities in the Church of God in the end-time to continue on.

What a shameful, what a horrifying, what a horrible thing. What awaits them then? The Great White Throne unless some have gone too far. Sometimes that happens. That’s God’s judgment. Sometimes some have gone so far with what they’ve chosen to do there are some very strong scriptures that I do not yet fully understand or know, and God hasn’t revealed it, when it talks about a condemnation to individuals who set out to nail Christ once again to a pole. How does God look upon that?

So, that’s going to a certain point in time where they’ve gone beyond an ability to repent. They won’t. That’s their choice. And you know what? That can’t be in God’s Kingdom. We all have to be convicted of these things no matter who it is. Husband, wife, child, parent. If it comes down to that, so be it. Because God cannot have in His Family, in His Kingdom, that kind of mind. It’s just not going to be allowed. And so we say what to that? Amen. Amen. Is it hard? Look at God’s children over 6,000 years. All His children. But people grow up and they’ve been given opportunities of human life, and within that especially within a calling, but even in the world. Over and over again God has had to reject, obviously, because primarily over 6,000 years it's been about 144,000.

But it becomes harder when it’s a matter of the Church, when He gives His impregnation into the mind of individuals, and they turn against Him. We can’t understand that kind of hurt, that kind of sorrow that people would choose such things, to turn against their God, their Father. But if they have, that’s upon them and there’s not a thing anyone can do or should even try to do to reverse that. Because you can’t. God gives every opportunity and it’s up to us to respond to that, whoever we are or whatever it is through time. That’s a matter of unity and oneness with the judgment of God, and to understand it, why it’s that way. It has to be that way.

So again, there are so many who have removed themselves from the presence of God as they actually chose to return to Egypt within the Church over and over again. As a minister, ever since I’ve been in God’s Church, to see this happen year-by-year-by-year-by-year. I know I don’t feel it in the manner that the Great God of the universe does, but it hurts when you know them, and you walk to God’s house side by side and then see the choices that individuals can make and to seemingly not grasp what they’re doing.

But God allows that because it’s about the mind. It’s a very precious thing and we have to treat it as such and understand what it means to corrupt it and how dangerous that is, especially after being impregnated with God’s spirit.

So, we have to fight to change, to grow, to receive what God has for us, because it takes that. We have to fight against this evil nature that really is the nature of Satan. It’s the same kind of nature that Satan had, what he turned to. Selfish, about himself. That’s what our human nature is like. That’s a hard thing for human beings to come to see.

Many have left God’s Church just because of that alone. “I am tired of hearing how bad I am. I’m going somewhere else.” Many of them make the choice to go to where you can just come as you are. Right back into protestantism. “You can just come as you are. You’re welcome; the doors are wide open. We’re so happy to have you (especially your money). We’re so happy to have you!” That’s the way of the world.

Some have chosen to return to Egypt. It’s happened every year. It happens in the remnant Church here, every year. I still see it going on. I still know it’s happening. I know some it’s going to happen to because I see some I don’t believe in any fashion or form are going to really repent. So be it. Sooner or later you’ll be gone.

So again, incredible to understand these things. So, such a relationship with God, to be in His presence is not owed to anyone. God has already given us everything. As soon as we’re called, as soon as we’re baptized, it’s laid out for us, success, power, might, to change, to become transformed. We just have to make the choices along the way. It’s that simple. That’s why we all have to fight to keep that relationship alive, active, to go before God day by day, to understand our calling and God’s called us and what it means to be able to come into His presence like we are able to do and to treat it with awe, absolute awe.

So, let’s read those last few verses again. But your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in, and they shall know the land which you have despised. So, people don’t think about “Well, I despise the Millennium that’s coming. I despise being a part of the 144,000.” People don’t think that way. When it comes to wanting something different than what God offers that goes by the wayside because they don’t believe it anymore. They don’t trust God. They don’t believe. It really comes down to not believing God. That’s how weak an individual can become, and when an individual becomes that weak to where they don’t believe, whew, horrible.

You’ve all seen it here in Cincinnati over and over and over gain, all of you who have been here for any length of time. Even if it’s been here a short time you’ve seen it over and over and over again. Every other area where people are, they’ve seen it repeated.

But as for you, your carcases shall fall in this wilderness. And your sons shall be shepherds in the wilderness forty years and bear the brunt of your infidelity, until your carcasses are consumed in the wilderness. According to the number of the days in which you spied out the land, forty days. For a day for a year you shall bear your iniquities for forty years, and you shall know My opposition. So people are going to come to learn in time who have been a part of the Body God’s opposition, that He’s not going to allow certain things to be. If they won’t repent they’re going to learn.

It’s going to be pretty harsh, especially at the very end of the hundred years. Because there are going to be those who have gone through all this, had opportunity to be in the hundred years and going to do it again. You think that isn’t possible? Lived in Philadelphia or Laodicea or with the remnant, gone by the wayside, resurrected later on and repeat it again. What do they deserve? Not to be in God’s Family. Choices, choices, choices.

You think, well, how is there choice? Eternal life or… Well, if you think that way then your mind is different than what happens to the mind when it becomes corrupted.

I the Eternal have spoken this. I will surely do so to all this evil congregation who are gathered together against Me, and everyone who has been ever gathered together against God – whether it be against Herbert Armstrong (and they didn’t say it was against God, they just found fault with Herbert Armstrong and his guidance and his leadership as an apostle in God’s Church) or against God’s apostle now, absolutely the same thing. It is what it is.

In this wilderness they shall be consumed, and they shall die. So, that was a physical thing. They all have opportunity to be resurrected later on for that hundred years. Then there are those who have left God’s Church and there going to be some of those who are resurrected later on as well.

That’s why I’ve stated many a time I would so hate to have to live this again and know – because I know I’m not going to be in this one for a hundred years. Well, I’m pretty sure. Anyway, if it has to be that way, God will make sure, but oh, please no. But to do it again? To me, if you want to watch a horror show on TV that is the one that exceeds them all. That would be it in my mind.

Numbers 14:36—Now, the men who Moses sent to spy out the land, who returned and made all the congregation to complain against him by bringing about a bad report of the land, those men who brought up the evil report about the land died by, it says “the plague,” but it’s a word that means by the blow/the slaughter, basically that God pronounced: “You’re going to die in the wilderness.” Eventually, it’s going to happen, for whatever reason, whatever purpose it is, and these here by the direct hand of God, God’s going to see to it that they die.

That’s why I made comment that I know in this end-time there are some things that are not going to come to the surface that I will have to deal with, God will take care of it. It’s God ultimately that’s going to see to it who becomes a part of the 144,000, which we grasp and comprehend with all of our being (we should). And those who live on into the Millennium? It’s in God’s hands. And if we’re living right, we’ll be there. If we’re fighting for it, we’ll be there. But those who haven’t? They. Will. Not. Be. There.

That’s why I know, that’s why I’ve been able to speak with this as boldly as I have for a long time now, that it’s going to be that way. There are people who poo-pot it. I’ll guarantee you.

But Joshua, the son of Nun, and Caleb, the son of Jephunneh, remained alive of the men who went to spy out the land. Then Moses told these words to all the people of Israel, and the people mourned greatly. Incredible what they did. Incredible human nature.

Verse 40—Then they rose early in the morning and went up to the top of the mountain. Now, this is kind of an awkward translation here but it’s into the hill country, saying, Here we are, and we will go up to the place which the Eternal has promised, for we have sinned.

Human nature. It’s amazing how sometimes there are situations that will happen and “I feel bad about that and I’m going to repent.” “I’ve sinned. I need to change. I’ve done ‘this’ or I’ve done ‘that.’” Well, you know, sometimes it gets to a point when God’s involved in judgment, because it’s God’s Church, it’s God’s spirit within us, that He says, “This is it, no more.” Everything comes to that in some point in time in people’s lives.

Just like those two elders I mention over and over again, when I told them, “You don’t have time.” Basically, “Where do you stand? With what you’ve been taught since you’ve come into God’s Church, that God gave to His apostle, or are you going to go with what they’re teaching out there now in Pasadena?” Shouldn’t have had to ask that. Shouldn’t have had to tell that. It should be obvious where they’re going to stand. But it was asked because it wasn’t too obvious.

So Moses said, Why do you now transgress the command of the Eternal? Interesting how this is happening now. Because they’re going to do something they should have done before, but God says, in essence, “It’s too late. Too late.” “And now you’re disobeying God again because you’re going to try to accomplish something, do something that you should have done a long time ago.” …for this will not succeed.

In other words, they’re going to go up. They feel bad about it, they don’t like hearing what they have, that they’re going to start dying in the wilderness, that all the people from twenty years old, they’re going to start dying in the wilderness and they’re going to have to be out there for a full forty years. Well, they’ve seen certain things, power of God that God has done, and now this one here, it’s worrisome. Finally, something got through that’s worrisome because of all the things they’ve seen. Everything that’s been told to them has happened the way Moses has said.

So, here now they’re going to repent and now they’re going to go up and take it. Little late. “Now you want to come into the promised land? Now you want to go there when you’ve done what you’ve done, when you’ve been warned again and again and again, and you still make such choices? And you don’t repent? You may feel sorry but you’re not repenting.” That’s what happens.

Even within the Church of God some people may come to a point where they feel kind of bad and sorry about a certain thing, but they don’t change. That’s what I marvel about sometimes. As strong as I’ve been just about Holy Day offerings. I don’t care if it’s a dollar! If that’s all you have that’s all you have! It’s not a matter the amount, it’s the matter that you obey God and you do it! And if you don’t do it that screams out to me in volumes that you’re a liar, that you’re stealing from God Almighty, that you don’t honor God, that you’re not committed and convicted to this way of life.

And yet individuals continue to do it. It’s like, I’ve been so strong in that! How can you deceive yourself into thinking you could still be around this Body? And that’s what you did?! There are times that some have gone so far that even when they want to come back in certain things there are some that aren’t going to be allowed to come back. That’s where we are. You think, well, you’re hard. No, I believe that’s the mind of God. I believe it’s from God and I have to act accordingly. Because if I don’t then I’m held accountable. What do you think I’m going to do?

Moses said, Why do you now transgress the command of the Eternal, for this will not succeed. Do not go up, lest you be defeated by your enemies, for the Eternal is not among you. Tell people that and they still go off and do what they want to do because “the Eternal is among them. They can open up their Bibles. They can get together in a little group and go through their Bible and say, ‘See, this is where he’s wrong. He’s wrong about this because this is what it says. Isn’t that just clear as all get out?’”

Those things have happened over and over again in God’s Church by members of God’s Church, by ministers in God’s Church. It just repeats itself again and again and again and again, and we’re to learn from those things. Where is our heart? Where is our mind? Where is our being? Faithful to God? Loyal to God? God tests us in those things, and He’ll know before we’re through this.

Verse 43—For the Amalekites and the Canaanites are there before you, and you shall fall by the sword because you have turned away from the Eternal. The Eternal will not be with you.

We know this when someone is put out of God’s church. God is not with you anymore. How can you think God’s going to be with you?

I think of some in certain areas who took portions of the congregations with them when they did some of these things in different parts of the world even, and every once in a while have a few that go along with them in certain of these things. They affiliate then with someone else.

The one that really gets me are some who went with some who I already knew what they were like. I mean, if you go with the one who was mentioned in the book here recently that broke away earlier on, you think, “You have no idea what you’re getting into.” And if you go with one who is just like him, it’s just his came a little bit later, and he’s using a name that reflects what God is doing here… Incredible how Satan works.

And so people go out and affiliate with different ones and leave truths. That we had an Apostasy. Because those others don’t teach we had an apostasy. As a whole, they don’t grasp about Joseph Tkach Sr. They don’t grasp Laodicea and that we were all Laodiceans, that we all began to slumber and sleep spiritually and had to repent of that. Over and over again, and yet to discard all those truths in order to associate with someone else out there who doesn’t believe any of that truth, how can they? It blows my mind.

That’s why I talk about the truths are your power. Your strength is there. It reveals who you are. Just like in the next chapter, it’s going to focus on that even more so a little stronger. We should know and know that we know who we are because of the truth that God has given to us. Awesome! The amount of it no small thing either, why it’s that way.

For the Amalekites and the Canaanites are there before you, and you shall fall by the sword because you have turned away from the Eternal. The Eternal will not be with you. But they presumed. This has to do with a word that carries two meanings. One, the meaning of “swelling.” That’s what happens. The mind gets lifted up with it’s own self-importance, with what it wants to believe and starts believing whatever it is that they esteem that is not according to what they were given. But in themselves and their importance and what they can see, because they can turn to their Bible, and they can prove certain things. Okay.

The other, because it has to do with pride, and the other is connected with the word “not listening.” That’s what happens. When the mind gets puffed up, begins to think itself is something and looks for another leader. And generally, the one who’s leading the group is the one who wants to be the leader. Duh. Anyway, those things that have happened over and over and over again in God’s Church. Over and over and over again before the Apostasy and after the Apostasy. It’s continued to go on. Mind-boggling!

Yet that’s the way we are as human beings. We have to be careful. That’s the fight we have before us: to be faithful to God. God is first. To have a relationship with God, to fight for that relationship, to put God first, to see where we’re not doing that and fight to change that, to be faithful.

So, it says But they presumed to go up to the head of the hill country. That’s what the word is about. It’s the hill country. That’s a good way to describe it because there are just rumbling hills there with nothing on it until you get to areas where it starts to grow (and still hill country).

Nevertheless, neither the ark of the covenant of the Eternal nor Moses departed from the camp. And you know what? Doesn’t depart from the Church of God—PKG either. This is where God is working. Somebody else goes somewhere else, doesn’t go with them. God’s spirit doesn’t go with them. If they’re not in the temple anymore they can’t carry it with them. Incredible.

Then the Amalekites and the Canaanites who dwelt in the hill country came down and attacked them and drove them back as far as Hormah. They were warned. Just never did listen. Over and over and over again. Just as there have been people who just never have listened, just won’t listen. They start turning from it for whatever reason.

So, as we began going through this series again and focusing on how incredibly awesome it is to be called – I hope we see that with all of our being. What an awesome thing to be called by God! Can we grasp that? A little bit. But we better hold on to that because that’s so precious, so powerful, it really is. To be able to come in God’s presence any and all the time.

Then we came to where God made the statement about the Israelites, again, “testing these ten times,” and so forth. So, we went through five things. Well, we went through ten, that we’ve gone through the tenth now. We went through five early on concerning the Church and what the Church did. We started through it, we went through five, and I’m going to go on with five more.

Now, as I was reviewing some of this stuff and thinking about it, it’s absolutely mind-boggling what happened in God’s Church through Philadelphia, let alone why Laodicea was what it was later on after Herbert Armstrong died. But these are awesome, they really are.

I’m going to go through those five again just quickly, the first five, and then continue on with five more, because the Church has done it over and over and over, people in the Church have done it over and over again. It wasn’t just those hard-hearted, hard-headed, carnal, physical Israelites. Because what we have to grasp, what we need to grasp is what people in the Church have done is so much worse! That’s why the judgment upon them is going to be heavy. It’s going to be strong indeed, as it should be.

So we began with Herbert Armstrong, one of the first things that comes to mind was about the structure that Herbert Armstrong wanted to build. It came into his mind to build a place there in Pasadena, the house that was going to be dedicated to God, to honor God.

Now, I guess some would like to do what some did after the Apostasy, and they wanted to build churches. Because we’ve never done that in God’s Church, and there are reasons for that. But anyway, some wanted to build certain buildings. And if you could just make a building, even if it’s just a tin roof on it and it looks like you’re coming up to a tin roof place down there in Big Sandy area, and it’s not a really nice building like churches generally would be known to build, these great structures. You think, how honorable is that to God? This is what you’re building to worship in? You could have done so much better, but you didn’t. So, there’s a mindset.

Herbert Armstrong, if he was going to build something like that, it was going to be of quality. And you know what? At that time myself, others in Gods Church that we talked to, excited about that, excited to be a part of that, as a whole. But there was an undercurrent of those who were not. Depends on where your heart is, and you support that.

People would cry, moan, “Well, all these tithes that are being used, and here…” Oh, I’ve heard this close. “All these tithes and families are hardly able to have enough for their children at home because they’re sending that in, and this is what they’re doing with it?!” It’s like, it’s none of your business.

When it really comes down to it, it’s God’s money and God has given different ones to use it. And so, you want to decide where it’s supposed to be used? What does that mean? What does that really mean, that a structure is being built and there are children out here…? Does that mean you stop tithing? Is that what that means? Because to some that’s kind of what that means, doesn’t it? Do you stop tithing because a structure is being built that you don’t agree with, that it should be built? People’s minds. Bonkers. Nuts. Off the track.

Next, number two, made the comment about the Incredible Human Potential, how early on some began to complain about that. Heard about those things and some ministers here and there. Not very many, but enough to cause a rippling and a rumbling within the Church, a shaking. I think of Matthew 24 when it talks about this, the earthquakes, and you realize, no, it’s the word for shaking and it’s about the Church, shaking within the Church. It just got stronger and stronger the farther we went on, got worse and worse.

Then came 1974, the change to Pentecost, the day of the week it was to be observed.

So, we’ve gone through all those things and all the rumblings that went with it and people who left. At that time there a lot more ministers and different ones and people taking sides on both sides. It’s just insane, the history. People who had the impregnation of God’s spirit. How could such a thing happen? It’s like asking, well, how could the Apostasy happen? Same way. It’s simple. It’s us. We make choices.

God doesn’t have to come down and intervene and stop it. Does He intervene and stop us from sinning? Sometimes people, you think that’s what they think. That’s why I’ve talked to the ministry throughout the years telling them don’t insert yourself into certain situations. Be careful not to insert yourself in certain situations. There are times to let things go their course. Because God doesn’t insert Himself in our life every moment we sin. He’s given us the teaching every Sabbath – Sabbath by Sabbath, Holy Day to Holy Day – and we’re to learn from that and we’re to grow. That’s the primary way in which we grow and have opportunity to make choices along the way. If we’re not listening to that you think much is going to change otherwise?

So again here, then we came to the point number four of Herbert Armstrong’s health beginning to wane at times. He’s getting weaker, he’s getting older, people saw some of the weakness and so forth, and right away people began to think, talk. Especially those at headquarters. Especially leaders. Like, “He’s getting close. He’s getting closer. He may die anytime and who is going to take his place?” There were people who wanted it, wanted that place. Incredible. Mind-boggling.

Number five. Then within the midst of some of those things over a period of those years began to hear things, rumors starting to go through the Church – in the midst of those years starting farther back and coming up and through that point and on – rumors concerning Garner Ted Armstrong. Because see, back then the logical thing many had talked about when they began to speculate, because speculation took place on a plane that oftentimes wasn’t healthy, individuals began to contemplate who are going to be the two witnesses? “Those two, father and son.” Seemed to be, if you want to talk about “logical,” the course it would take. Little did we know how much time was in front of us yet.

Number six. These I’ve just put in here as showing ten that have applied to the Church since I’ve been in it. So, following right along with number five and the many times that Garner Ted Armstrong had to be disciplined starting back in 1971. The Church wasn’t told about it, but Herbert Armstrong talked about it later on and he wrote a letter that this was the first time. Clear back in 1971 he had to be removed from his job because of what he was doing and how he was living and the example he was setting.

Now, if you were back there at that time it would be something that would be exceedingly hard to believe because of the times that you hear him, the things he writes about, and it’s like, surely not. So people were torn in some of those things. Because his father tried to protect him, feeling that God wasn’t through with him, feeling that there was a job yet to be done that his son was amply able to fulfill. As far as charisma, intelligence, sharpness, speech, you really couldn’t find any better. Pretty strong, looking physically in the world.

So again, going all the way back to 1971, disfellowshipped, had to be sent away for a while. But things continued to become more divisive. Individuals, there were people who knew it higher up in the ministry though Herbert Armstrong wasn’t choosing to tell the Church yet.

GTA then was disfellowshipped in 1972, and this was only the beginning of an ever-growing problem of disobedience and rebellion from Garner Ted and some of those surrounding him in this circle, and others who were against him because they saw these things. They didn’t feel his father should allow certain things to take place, so there’s this division that’s starting on both sides. Just like with Pentecost, people on both sides who were wrong in their judgments. Awesome.

Number seven. Then, for nearly a year, from 1975-1976 GTA (Garner Ted Armstrong) was working with others to oust Herbert Armstrong—that’s what his father came to know—so he could become the head of the Worldwide Church of God. It was here that a concerted effort was taking place to cut communication off from Herbert Armstrong, so he didn’t know what was happening within the Church. Garner Ted worked in his administrative position to try to cut off lines of communication to his father, so his father wouldn’t know what was happening within the Church.

And you know what? That continued from then on all the way up until about 1982, but even still was happening to a certain degree because individuals at that time, though they were trying to cut him off, others tried to find favor by telling him what they felt he wanted to hear. Gleaning favor for the wrong reasons. Not the truth, just a little twisting here and there to try to find favor. It was done by several evangelists at headquarters. Incredible!

It was finally at that time that Herbert Armstrong sent out an official letter to all the Church to inform them that GTA (Garner Ted Armstrong) had been disfellowshipped from the Church. It took up till that period in 1976 when he did that. He stated that behind his back that Garner Ted had been influencing leaders of the Church with rumors that his mind had gone senile. This is what finally came back, it was being told “My dad’s becoming senile. He’s not able to handle things and so we have to protect the Church.”

Yet Herbert Armstrong stated that Garner Ted Armstrong’s mind had now become filled with hate (which it had), antagonism (which it had), he fought against his father, and he had become unstable, and he had. Spiritually, totally unstable. Physically, by his actions and by what he was living, which I’m not going to go into. Disgusting, hideous, sick for any minister of God.

There were ministers of God at different times who did some of the same things and they were not removed from God’s Church, from serving as ministers. They should have been immediately. But as the protestant world has done, they just moved them from a different area. Whether it be alcoholism or whatever else it might be, and some were really bad. How sick! Those individuals who are in charge are those evangelists. Should have their butts kicked up between their whatever.

But God allowed it to happen so we could learn from it, the battles, the power of Satan, the need to stay close to God, the need to keep focused spiritually, the need to fight with all of our being, the need to be faithful and loyal to God, the need to be close to God, the need to grasp being able to come into God’s presence everyday and what that means.

Herbert Armstrong further declared that “This is not my empire…” Because some of these rumors were going around. People became disfellowshipped, and different ones and what they would say. Its always been there. It’s always been there. “…nor my sons. It is the Church and the work of the living God.” That was Herbert Armstrong’s mind. But it wasn’t Garner Ted’s. And real candidly, at that time, it wasn’t most of the evangelists either. Mind-boggling what happened in the Church.

Number eight. Then in 1978 Garner Ted Armstrong along with an evangelist, Ron Dart, started the International Church of God. 1978. Amazing, time flies. To look back in those times and think about some of those things. And so, here an evangelist and some other ministers joined in, but primarily it was Ron Dart who was an evangelist.

This move began to draw others, including some ministers from within the Worldwide Church of God, as I said, and it was a magnet for disgruntled, liberal, and divisive people. A magnet! Because you know what? If you don’t agree with some of the things that are being done and you kind of have a more liberal mind and you want to do other things that are more liberal—because this liberalism had already been creeping into the Church in 1975 and 1976. It was just getting worse and worse and worse, and minister were latching on to this liberal mindset and congregations were of the same thing that was taking place in too many places in too many church areas.

And so when this happens and there is somebody else out here that you have a hard time believing, well, “Yeah, but he’s starting and he sounds right and he’s been on TV and he’s a very charismatic…” and he was, individual in that respect. And so, others liked him. He was likable. There were country western people who liked him. They invited him to be in their programs and different things, and different ones came to the Feast at different times just to have singalong type thing so everybody in the Church could come and listen to it. Amazing.

So, this was a magnet for some who were disgruntled and some who were liberal and others who were divisive. And so, they were drawn to personalities, whether it be Ron Dart who was always noted to be kind of like Dr. Hoeh, to be so sharp, intelligent, exceedingly intelligent. Well, intelligence can kill you if you rely upon it, if you rely upon your own IQ, which he was supposed to have the highest of in that sense in the university there in Texas, or whatever it was in the stories that have gone out.

Dr. Hoeh, who could sit on the front row and Herbert Armstrong would be preaching and he could be reading a book. There were people who were in awe of that, students who were. “Look! Dr. Hoeh is so smart he can hear Herbert Armstrong and he’s reading his book on the front row.” No, that just tells me he’s exceedingly disgusting, that he’s not paying full attention to God’s apostle, and he thinks highly of himself. Can’t you see? Don’t you see the difference? “Oh, he’s such a man!” I’ve heard ministers tell that story. You think, “Am I missing something?”

Anyway, it’s hard, it’s really incredible the things that have happened in our history, but it shows what God has allowed to be, exist within the environs of the Church, and the battles that are there. Because we have to learn. Those who are faithful, you know what? They learn through that process. They grew through that process. Others who weren’t went by the wayside. So be it. The sooner the better as far as I’m concerned.

That’s why I’ve always, in that respect—I don’t like it, but I have loved when disgruntled, divisive individuals come to a point where they’re out. It gives peace to God’s Church. It’s bad. It’s harmful. Because that kind of thing is what has led people astray all along. It’s like the spies, people listen to what they want to listen to and believe what they want to believe that’s different from what God shows them. Incredible.

The next uprising and rebellion, number nine here, was in January of 1979 when the State of California under Attorney General there sought to remove Herbert Armstrong and Stanley Radar from their offices and positions in the Church. Now, this was quite an experience to go through at that time, because it was like, “Who do you think you are? God’s apostle? And you’re to going to tell the Church how it's going to be run? You’re going to put a judge in there who’s going to be responsible for where the finances go in the Church from now on? You don’t know what you’re doing, you fool.” Anyway, they were foolish.

But anyway, as time went on it seemed clearer that there’d actually been some within the ministry high up who fed out information that stirred the pot that brought this about in the first place. Because their attention wasn’t on this group out there as a whole, but it became more of that as time went along because of what they did later on. Anyway, certain things came out.

So often what happens is people skew, they create a narrative of something that they know that others might want to hear to dislike and turn against, in this case here, Herbert Armstrong and Stanley Radar.

California placed a state receivership over the Church and sought to place a judge over the matters of the Church—so, I’m reading these things so you can know some of the history—and this was done under the guise of protecting the Church, the college, and the foundations. California Attorney General, George Deukmejian, was his name, accused Herbert Armstrong and Stanley Radar of syphoning off and diverting Church assets to their own funds. Same old story. The argument used by Deukmejian was that the Church, college, and foundations were not profit corporations subject to the States charitable trust law which makes the people of California—that was their argument in the courts and how they got as far as they did—which makes the State of California not the Church and its members the beneficial owners of all it’s property.

Mind-boggling how far sometimes government will take things. He later became governor. But also within the State of California later on they passed laws where this could never happen again, at least not out there.

As a result of their receivership, there are brethren who left the Church as they chose to believe much of the distorted and contrived narratives that this process produced. So you can only imagine. Because, you know, if you go through it – don’t read it because it’s a bunch of you-know-what, but it’s the same old, same old story. “Look at what they’re living in. He’s got this lavish home in Tucson, Arizona, and look where he’s able to stay in California, and look at the jet, and look at the transportation and look at all this lavish lifestyle that they live. Look at this building that was built!”

Yeah, you want to bring leaders in different parts of the world – and if you ever think of some of those leaders who came through there – you don’t bring them to Big Sandy to a tin roofed building that looks like a pole barn, basically, if you know what a pole barn is. They’re going to be so impressed. Because they function on a physical plane. That’s the way they think. They can’t think spiritually. So to be a light and an example to them of something that they’ll maybe consider and listen to?

That’s why I used to get so riled up when I heard people say, well, when these films come out of Herbert Armstrong talking to thousands and thousands and thousands that were gathered together in the Philippines in one of the meetings, and all the notoriety he was given by Marcos and his wife at that time. Then the Japanese Diet and the different ones who were in the Diet and those, they said, “We’re his sons.” That’s how they looked to him, with incredible fondness. Emperor Hirohito giving him the highest medal that could be given to anyone who was non-Japanese. All these things that happened. You don’t drive them around in a Volkswagen. You don’t show them things that look like you’re Podunk. But that’s what some people would have preferred out of their self-righteous bigoted minds, lying minds.

So anyway, these things that happened in the Church, they’re mind-boggling, they really are. That a state could get by with something like that that they did and attack the Church like that as they did and find fault like they did. But like so often happens there were people in the Church—and not strong people, not dedicated people, not people who were strong in spirit and close to God, they didn’t begin to think wrong toward Herbert Armstrong and those things that he had. They were thankful he had them, especially because of his age. And if individuals could drive him or fly him, thank God. An individual who’s up in his late 80’s and early 90’s and through that period of time, to be thankful for what he had? Mind-boggling.

Number ten. During the receivership over the California college campus and church headquarters some evangelists began to set themselves up to be able to have certain control or potential control over the church. That’s what just came out with time. So, different ones, “Well, I don’t know, maybe tithes are just being misused and mishandled and should they really have this kind of place to live in?” Anyway.

So, these kinds of rumblings and doubt began to go through different parts of the Church. So, that was a tough time during 1979 and 1980, but boy, I’ll tell you, 1982, he was given a spurt of power that was awesome to behold. You think, “Can he even make it up to the podium?” And when he would put his hand down and beat on that podium, it’s like his fingers were… Which sometimes I worry about mine and what they’re going to become. But anyway, they just looked so old because the skin is getting tighter, and the wrinkles are big. And you know what? It happens. It’s coming. It just happens in life.

But he had such incredible power. When he started speaking about God and God’s plan and talking about, I don’t care whether it be the two trees or the temple or whatever it might be, you knew where it was coming from. I mean, there was no doubt. It was awesome, inspiring.

Anyway, but there were people who it wasn’t awesome and inspiring to. Still finding fault, going off on different tangents with different groups, going off to Garner Ted at different times or some of the ones that were splitting off. Because eventually God began to weed out these different evangelists. And others just rose up and took their place. Anyway, long ongoing story. Divisiveness and rebellion.

With that we’ll have Part 6 next Sabbath.