Right and Wrong – Pt. 2

Wayne Matthews

June 29, 2013

We're going to continue with the sermon series Right and Wrong and this is Part 2.

Before we continue I'd like to do a quick review of Part 1. We looked at Romans 7 and 8 and we saw that Paul knew that he was in a battle against his own selfishness, the selfishness that was in him. We found that God had established a law, which is not referring to the 10 Commandments, but a law which is: Everyone born from a man and a woman has a natural carnal mind that is hostile to God and hostile to God's ways. Everybody that has been born from a man and a woman, from Adam and Eve, is born with this mind. And that is a law that God has established. Now, we know Jesus Christ was born of a woman but He did not have a father in the sense of a human father, God was His Father, and He was not subject to this law in sense of a natural carnal mind.

We saw that God's law is holy and good, and that's how Paul described it. God's law reveals what sin is. Sin is the transgression or the breaking of the spiritual intent of the law. So it starts in the mind, sin starts in the mind, the way we think, and therefore, a person can think a particular way and dwell in it and not commit a physical act, yet God says that person has still sinned. Sin starts in the thinking.

We also established that once called into a personal relationship with God the Father we can be saved from this selfish thinking by the power of God's spirit if we desire to overcome the selfishness in us. And that's the part of our choice. So we recognize, because God has called us and given us the opportunity to see spiritually, that we're born with this mind of selfishness, and we accept that, we know it, but now we have to choose by the power of God's spirit to fight against that selfishness, and that is an individual personal choice.

The challenge for a converting person is to sacrifice the self over a lifetime, and that's the battle, that's called converting. Often in the Church we talk about someone who is 'converted'. Well, the reality is that we are in a process of converting, because we are in a process of changing our thinking by the power of God's spirit over a lifetime, and in this human body, in this human flesh we will never achieve full conversion. It's not possible, because the natural carnal mind still exists until the day we die.

We looked at Genesis 2 and covered the creation of Adam and Eve. We established that God created marriage between a man and a woman and that sex outside of God's ordained marriage was sin. Because of our human reasoning, carnal thinking, we often view sexual sin with a human bias, because by nature we are all biased because of our background, depending on how we were brought up, what was said in our family environment. So that dictates a lot of whether we  are racist or whether we're biased in a particular subject; the 'way we see it' based on our prejudices rather than how God established it. And that sits within all of us to different degrees.

There is currently an example, which we would know here in Australia, with regards to how mankind judges such matters as rape. So what does God say about rape? Rape is forced sex. If a man forces himself on to a woman or a man it's called rape in today's society, but in the Bible the word rape doesn't appear, but forced does. So non-consensual sex, God says in His word, that the man who does that should be put to death. That sounds harsh to a carnal mind. It sounds like that's really tough. But the reality is mankind rejects God's plan.

Now, God says that the best option for a man who forces himself onto a man or a woman would be that he should be put to death; and the reason is, there is an opportunity then for that mind to stop thinking – death – and that that mind could be resurrected in a hundred year period and be given an opportunity to convert, converting over the hundred years. So God in His mercy says that's the best plan! But of course, man knows better than God, he raises himself up so what does he do? Man says, "Oh no, we can rehabilitate this person, so let's put him in jail for a period and let's try to convince him," often against his will, "that he has now changed, his thinking's changed." But the reality is the carnal mind would struggle, really, to overcome that thinking. The pleasure it gained from that rape, force, power that takes place in any rape, and therefore the mind often gets worse. Rather than follow God's way and have the opportunity for a resurrection man knows better, he knows what's right and wrong so he will let the person live.

So, we have an example where somebody at the age of 18 raped somebody, went to jail, was released, then went on and raped 16 more, and man in his mercy put him back in jail for 8 years for those 16 rapes, and then after that he was released again.  And of course, he raped again and was jailed again, and then man in his mercy decided to sit down and have a meeting with him and see whether or not he had changed. And of course, he convinced the parole board that he had changed, so after 22 convictions of rape he then is released into society and surprise, surprise... he rapes and murders somebody else. Now he's before the courts and guess what, surprise, surprise, the law is asking for a lenient sentence. The insanity of the human carnal mind...the insanity! Nobody cares about the victim! And yet God says if that person had of been destroyed at the age of 18 there was a potential that his mind would not be so polluted that there was a chance to work with that for a spiritual outcome to enter Elohim. But how perverted is his mind after all of this? We don't know whether God is going to resurrect this mind or not. Can it actually be changed? Can it really? We don't know. God knows in His mercy. But look at all the suffering because of man's carnal mind, because man allowed this to proceed. And that's only one example of what goes on in society today, because man thinks he's more merciful than God. Incredible thinking!

So, let's pick up the story in relation to what is right and wrong and how man's mind has been given this decision making of right and wrong. Now, we're not judging and condemning mankind because we all had that natural carnal mind, that's the way mankind is, but for us in the Church we've been called to recognize that that's what we're like. That's what we're like, and we've been called to fight against it. And we're just reviewing now about how this happened and where it started and why it is this way...and this is the process that everyone that's ever been born, if they're resurrected into the hundred year period, are going to have to battle this very battle we're in. They're going to have to recognize this thinking that we have, that it's not right of and by itself, it doesn't know how to work out what's right and wrong.

So let's pick up, again, the story in Genesis 3:1. Now here it's talking and using a lot of symbolic language. Satan is a spiritual serpent, he is not a physical snake. So often you'll see man-made images of Adam and Eve in the garden and you'll see this physical snake wrapped around a tree; well, Satan is not a physical snake, God is using symbolic language here about a way that Satan operates, which is like slithering around, and we're going to look at some of this as well.

Genesis 3:1 – Now the 'serpent', and that word really is 'enchanter or seducer', Satan, the deceiver, that's what it's really talking about, it's not talking about a physical snake, was more cunning, which is more subtle, shrewd or crafty or more sly than any beast, any living creature; the reason is that Satan is a spirit being and animals don't have the power of decision making. Of course Satan, the serpent, is more deceptive, because he has a mind that reasons, where the animals don't, therefore he is more cunning because that's the way God made him. He could think, animals can't, can't reason...than any beast/living creature of the field, because Satan was created that way with great power, and which the LORD God had made. And he, Satan, said to the woman, Has God, Elohim, indeed said, You shall not eat of every tree of the garden? This really is a question that can create doubt, and it's like an open ended question that you think, "Oh, it has to be answered because here is a question, you have to answer it," when in reality you don't have to answer every question.

So Satan is the great dragon, the serpent of old. He is the deceiver, the slanderer, the adversary to God. So he's against God, he hates God's plan, and we're going to get into some of that, of why he's trying to destroy Adam and Eve at this point, because he can see a plan that he has which is destroy what God has set out to do, which is create Elohim.

Verse 2 - And the woman said to the serpent/to Satan, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die. The reason is because if you do touch it or if you do partake of it you're now going against God, you are rebelling! Rebellion is sin. The wages of sin is death. So God warned them. It's not really about picking fruit or eating a tree, the reality is this is about whether you will obey God or whether you won't. And  God said, "Well, if you go against what I'm telling you," sin, "you'll have to pay the penalty of sin because that is a law." The wages of sin, which is a law God has got in place, is death. So this is really a question about whether you will obey God or whether you won't, whether you will follow the instruction God gives or whether you won't. It's not about a physical tree with fruit, it's just a challenging situation that we all face in our day as well, whether we'll follow God or obey Him and listen to His voice or not, whether we'll seek our own opinion, the way we see it.

God knew that they could not obey Him. So God knew that Adam and Eve with their thinking could not follow God because it's a spiritual matter. It's not a physical matter, it's actually a spiritual matter. Because they were created with this mind that is against God and is not subject to God's law.

Verse 4 – Then the serpent, Satan the deceiver, said to the woman, You will not surely die: now there is truth and error here because on a physical level it's true, they would not surely die at that point in time. The moment you go and pick that fruit you're not going to die there on the spot. But he's lied to them because the penalty of rebellion is death. At some point in time it's a spiritual death. So in a subtle way this is the very first time that a concept of immortal life is tabled to somebody. Eve had to reason and rationalize saying, "Well, I won't die..." we don't know all the thoughts that she had, how deep she thought about this topic.

The truth is everyone will die physically but there is the potential to die spiritually and Satan is not getting into this aspect of it. What is not being said is that you will be cut off from God instantly on a spiritual level and you will die spiritually for your rebellion in the end, unless it's repented of.

Verse 5 - For God knows in that the day/the time that you eat it 'your eyes', now that really is saying, your mental faculties or your spiritual perception will be opened, and you will be like God. How will they be like God? Now, did they think they were going to be changed into something different? Not really. They're saying, you'll be like God, how? ...knowing good and evil. So you'll be able to work out what you know is good and evil. Someone is not going to come along and tell you what is good and evil, you're going to work it out for yourself. So that's how they're going to be like God, because God knows what is good and evil. Now he's saying, "You're going to be like God, you're going to be able to work it out yourself."

Now, this takes you back – who was the first who desired to be like God? Lucifer. That's exactly right, and we're going to look at that. He was the first that wanted to be like God, and here he's even saying, "Well, if you take this, if you make this action, you'll be like God," and yet that was exactly what he tried to be, he wanted to be like God.  We don't know how long a period's taken place from that spiritual rebellion to this physical rebellion.

Now they could be like God in deciding for themselves what is right and wrong, what is good and evil. They would set their own standards and decide for themselves what was better or best for them. That's the way they would have seen it, or Eve at this point would have seen it.

So when the woman saw, started to think, that the tree was good, was better for food, better than what God had already provided. It was something else they weren't to touch. They were reasoning, thinking, "Well, this is better than what God's provided." Was God holding back? ...could have been a question. Is God holding back something from us? Why aren't we allowed to touch that one? You can think about human reasoning true? Because we would all do the same. If we were there, we would do exactly the same. You say... someone puts a thought in your mind, says, "Well, you're allowed to eat all that, it's free, but that one over there you're not allowed to touch it." "Why aren't I allowed to touch it?" That's human reasoning. Is God holding back? I wonder if I did? I wonder what would happen? And here  someone comes along and says, "Nothing's going to happen. What's going to happen is you're going to be more power in an intellectual manner." Tempting. "You mean to say I'm going to be able to work things out for myself rather than being told what to do?" "Yeah." How long do you think you'd last? I know from my human nature not very long. I know I wouldn't have lasted very long either because that's just human reasoning, that's the way we are and we're all like that.

No different today with what truth is put into the Church. We often think it through and start to reason, "I wonder if..." "I wonder why..." "I wonder why this..." because that's the way we are, that's our minds.

In verse 6, continuing on there...So when the woman saw that it was good for food, that it was pleasant/desirable to the eyes, which is like a 'lust of the eyes', and the tree was desirable to make one wise, now this is pride entering here really, see, because I'm going to be wise all of a sudden, I'm going to be like God, I'm going to be able to work out all these things for myself rather than being told. This word here, 'to make one wise', is 'give understanding, pride of life, make me better than others'. So you're raising the self up. Really, they're raising themselves up against God ...she took it's fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her and he ate. So we don't know at that point, it doesn't go into a lot of detail about what discussion was had, but Adam has submitted to the thought process that he's had to face and what his wife has said to him.

Verse 7 - Then the eyes/mind of both of them were opened, open now to Satan's ways, really, and they knew, based on their reasoning's that they were naked. So, before where they were naked it hadn't entered their mind to think that being naked was a problem to them. But now with this new way of thinking, working out for yourself, now they can see they are naked ...and they sewed leaves together and made themselves a covering. Now we start to see the way the mind thinks. They had decided that God was possibly hiding something, like special knowledge, from them, so that's why the motivation of the decision, that's what Lucifer told them, "If you take of this you'll be wise, you'll be like God." They really wanted to be like God, that was the reasoning behind why they took it, because God was telling them what was right and wrong. Now they could do it for themselves.

So just like Lucifer had possibly millions of years before the creation of mankind they made this same decision, they went against God.

Verse 8 - And they heard the sound/the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool, so it was in the breeze, they could hear the sound of God, of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees in the garden. So we know that God can see everything. Mankind reasons that if they can do certain things that they can't be seen. So you really look at today's society and you'd say, why do we have "Nightclubs", and when you go into a Nightclub – I've been into them in my youth – why are they generally dark? Why is it all done in the dark? Because we don't want to be seen, what we're really doing, we don't want to be recognized in what we're doing. We want to enter the darkness willingly. That is the way man thinks, that you can hide what you're doing in your own room, that God and no one else will know. But it's not true, God knows everything.

Now, God created this mind in us so He knows what we're going to do, He knows that this is the way we think. God created us that way. But man thinks that he can hide. Here Adam and Eve had decided they're going to hide, that they can hide from God.

Genesis 3:9 – Then the LORD God called out to Adam and said, Where are you? Now, of course, He knew where they were. Where have you been?

Verse 10 - And he said, I heard your voice in the garden and I was afraid, I was fearful, because I was naked, and I hid myself. So here is this reasoning now, why he's saying he hid.

And He said, this is God saying, Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat? So this is what it's really about. It's about an instruction, it's about a command that God gave. And it's not really about a tree in the sense of a physical tree and doing it, it's about rebellion, it's about an attitude and a mindset.

Now we see the problem with mankind, this next lot of verses, the problem we all have in our nature, our carnal thinking. Verse 12 – Then the man said, The woman/the wife whom You, God, gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree and I ate. So the first thing is he says, "Well, the only reason I did this," so it's a justification, "the reason I did this, God, was because You created a woman for me...so really, if you trace it all back, God, it's your fault."  ...if you want to its, "Your the problem, God, not me! You created her, you gave her to me! You gave me this wife." Then he blamed the wife, "She made me do it! She gave it to me!" Adam is taking no personal responsibility for his thoughts or his actions – none. This is the way man is, justify the self, which is to defend the image we have of ourselves, because we all think we're better than we really are. That's just the natural carnal mind and we do justify. Often we don't even realize we're doing it.

There has been times in my life where I have justified and said things and it wasn't until it was pointed out to me that I had said or justified it, defended it, that I realized that, yes, that's what I do, that's my nature. And then you can repent of it and then you've got to strive to overcome justifying the self...and it's tough! It's a battle, because the natural carnal mind will do this.

So here Adam absolutely refuses to take personal responsibility for his own actions.

Verse 13 - Then the LORD God said to the woman, so now God is asking the woman, What is this you have done? And the woman said, The serpent deceived/beguiled me and I ate it. So now she's not taking any responsibility, she's saying, "Well, Satan did it; he made me do it." So this is Satan blamed for her choice. Now, he has put the thought process in there, but still Eve had to make a decision and she's made the wrong one. But she's defending herself, the way she is, she's better than this, "Satan made me do it" is the basic thinking.

We blame others for our disobedience to God's instructions. These instructions or commands are for our best interest and are based on God's love to us. So that's what God had set out. His desire is to give us the gift of spirit life, yet we will defend this self. Now, within the Body of Christ, the Church, the beauty of it is that we know who we are. It depends on the depth of it, whether we know our real thinking, but if we can see aspects of our thinking and fight against it, that's what God desires. And everyone's got different degrees of all the different aspects of sin in their life, but this is what God desires us to fight and never give up, even though we'll fail lots of times; But we can repent before God and say, "Yep, the way I think, my way is wrong and I don't want this carnal mind, I want your mind, the way You say is right is wrong." And that's the beauty of this Body that God has put us in, we've been called into this Body for a purpose, and I've just outlined it - to fight the self. To recognize it and admit it is the very beginning of a conversion.

Now God addresses the three involved in this sin of rebellion. God outlines the penalty for them, and there is certainly a lot of symbolic language here, and God now addresses Satan first.

Verse 14 - So the LORD God said to the serpent, to Satan, Because you, Satan, have done this, what has he done? Deceived and sinned because he did sin in putting deception in front of someone else, lying to somebody else, so there is sin and deception. ...you, Satan, are cursed more, so this is a great curse, than all cattle or all beasts, so anything physical. This is a great curse that is on Satan. ...and more than every beast, every living life of the field; so everything else that God has created, this curse is greater on Satan. ...on your belly you shall go, this is not talking about that Satan is going to run around on his belly, it's talking about he will slither around on the earth; so it's talking about symbolic language and not just referring to a physical snake. ...you will slither around on the earth and you shall eat dust all the days of your, Satan's, life: What God is saying there, that Satan will slither around, slide around this earth like a physical snake does looking to consume, looking what he can 'eat', what he can devour. He is out to destroy what God has and is creating in and through His Church. So that's Satan's desire, he is out to destroy God's plan, he is out to destroy you and me. That's his goal, that's his purpose, and he is slithering around on this earth looking to whom he may devour. I know in scripture it talks about 'like a roaring lion' does, well, no different than a snake, it's slithering around looking to consume something, and Satan slithers around looking for who he can devour.

...'to eat dust' is saying that there will be no pleasure in his life. So there is no joy in Satan's life, there is no pleasure in it at all.

Now, the spiritual impact for Satan is outlined. So now God is going to continue addressing Satan, and it is spiritual in nature. Verse 15 - I will put enmity/hatred between you, Satan, and the woman... Who is the woman? The Church. So this is a spiritual principle that God is outlining here. So there is going to be this hatred that is between Satan and God's Church, between your seed... what Satan sows. What is it Satan sows? He sows deception, sin, falsehood, and her seed; What is her seed? What is the Churches seed? Those that have God's spirit in the Church, in the Body of Christ. So Satan is going to hate God's people.

He, now it's going on to something else, a continuation of the scripture – He, and it's talking about the anointed Messiah, Jesus Christ, will bruise your head; so now it's a prophecy saying that Jesus Christ is going to bruise your head. This word actually is a onetime action, Christ will crush Satan's rulership...so it's yet future, hasn't happened yet, it's going to happen. He's going to crush you and it is to death... and you, Satan, shall bruise His, Christ's heel, not his head, his heel, in a onetime action cause a physical death of Jesus Christ. So this is a prophecy that has been partly fulfilled but is yet to be completed.

So let's look at part of this prophecy about the hatred between Satan and God's Church, the woman.

Revelation 12:13 – so Satan's end result is that his head is going to be crushed in the sense of he's going to be put to death, the penalty for sin, the wages of sin – death - unrepented sin, it's death, and Satan's going to pay it. Now this is an area of scripture that we have live through, many  of us have lived through aspects of this.

Revelation 12:13 - Now when the dragon/the serpent, Satan, it's the same one that was in the Garden of Eden, Lucifer, saw, or that word is 'to know' that he had been cast/thrust to the earth, he, Satan, persecuted the woman, we know that it's the Church of God, who gave birth to a male child, and that, of course, is Christ. Christ lives in the Church. We represent God and we have Christ living and dwelling in us. So there is that animosity between Satan... is between God's people, because we have Christ dwelling in us. So Satan will not let up in trying to destroy Jesus Christ. Remember, physically he's tried it. Remember when Christ was born he tried to destroy all the male children. Then, of course, he did succeed in the sense of a physical death that God the Father allowed. But Satan is not going to give up, he's going to fight to the end because he was the one who raised up – and we're going to look at that - why his attitude is he is out to destroy God's plan to create Elohim, and he will resist Christ and God the Father to his end. Christ lives in the Church so this hatred of Satan and the Church continues.

Verse 14 - But the woman, the Church, was given two wings of a great eagle, and we know that was a divine or spiritual protection, and she, the Church, might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, times, and half a time from the presence of the serpent, Satan. So we know that God protected the Church on a spiritual level. There was lot's of physical ramifications but on a spiritual level God did protect those He desired to protect. God protected those He called or had chosen for a period of 980 days - and you know that's from 1995 to 1998, and it was over a period of time. There are two different counts there, one can be from the apostasy to the Day of Pentecost of 1998 and the other one, of course, is 24th of September 1995 to 1998, and there has been sermons covering that.

Verse 15 - So the serpent, symbolic language again, Satan spewed water, false doctrine, out of his mouth like a flood after the woman. It's about this animosity that God prophesied in Genesis; it's actually taking place here. Why did Satan spew out this false doctrine in the Church of God? Why? ...that he, Satan, might cause her, the woman, the Church, to be carried away by the flood. False doctrine would flush over all of God's people, to overwhelm, to drown them in the flood, in the waters of false doctrine. Some did drown due to the false doctrine; God did protect a remnant. He's brought them through, He put a protection on them. Satan's desire is still to destroy God's Church in totality. He's not going to give up. He's set his mind to this, he can't repent of it. He is going to pursue God's people till his end.

Verse 16 - But the earth, symbolic of mountains and hills which were set up by the scattered Church groups, God's government, church governments were set up, helped the woman, the true Church, and the earth, Church governments, opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood, of false doctrine, which the dragon, Satan, the serpent, had spewed out of his mouth. So many brethren washed up into various locations and various Church of God's. I was one of them and there are other members of the Body here that have been washed up in various groups. And within the Church of God today there are people that can go through and explain their experiences, how they were washed up in various groups.

Verse 17 - And the dragon, Satan, was enraged with the woman, it's talking about the woman in Genesis, the true Church of God. He is furious at this Church, he's furious at what Jesus Christ and God the Father are doing in the Church, and he went to make war, now that is to fight a spiritual battle, with the rest, the remnant of her offspring: Who are they? ...who 'keep', that word is 'observe' the commandments of God, they obey God's law; they obey God's law and have the testimony, which is the witness or record of Jesus Christ [in their life]. We have the very evidence of Jesus Christ living in us because we are willing to fight the carnal mind, we are willing to seek to know what is right and wrong the way God sees it, we seek to obey the spiritual intent of the law. That's what we seek, that's what we desire. We desire God the Father and Jesus Christ to live in our lives so the power of the holy spirit can flow out to the benefit of others; we can think love to others. Now, that's a sermon in itself! The ability to love others can only come from the power of God's spirit, we can't do it with a natural carnal mind because it is about self; it's selfish, the natural carnal mind.

So the rest of Genesis 3:15 is yet to be fulfilled. It is pictured in the Day of Atonement when atonement is completed. When atonement is completed and we will see Satan killed, got rid of...the penalty of sin.

Ezekiel 28:18 - and again, there is a lot of symbolic language used and God uses symbolic language so that the natural carnal mind cannot understand what God is saying. Mr. Armstrong used to say it was like a jigsaw puzzle, here a little, there a little. You have to add one to another to get the picture, and of course, we don't see the full picture by any means but we see an outline. So to 'bruise' his head, to bruise Satan's head is to actually to destroy him.

Ezekiel 28:18 – You, Lucifer, the anointed cherub, defiled/polluted your sanctuaries, your holy place. How? ...by the multitude/abundance of your iniquities, his perversity, his depravity, his sin which was all in his thinking, by the iniquity/unjust/selfishness of your trading; now that 'trading' is like 'trafficking' – to go about trafficking. He trafficked his rebellious attitude, that's what he did. So once he formed in his mind, in his thinking, that he wanted to raise himself up, he trafficked that attitude, that opinion, that view that God was unfair, that he didn't like God's plan. So we, brethren, also need to be careful about what we traffic. Sometimes we traffic things accidently without thinking it through, but we have to take personal responsibility, by the things we say towards or about others. We have to be very careful that we're not seen to be trafficking an attitude. And this attitude that Satan trafficked was rebellion, rebellion against their Creator.

Then God goes on ...therefore I brought fire, talking about a prophecy, spiritual fire that destroys, from your midst of you, it devoured/consumed you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you. That is yet to be fulfilled, it is yet future.

Verse 19 - All who knew you among the peoples, and that can be nations or families, are astonished at you: you have become a 'horror'; and that word 'horror' is actually 'a destruction, a calamity, a dreadful event', and shall be no more forever. You will not exist. So that's a prophecy that is going to yet be fulfilled. Satan has an end.

The only way to peace is to destroy that which develops an attitude of hate and destruction. So that would apply to us, brethren. So the only way that God can have peace is to destroy that which develops an attitude of rebellion, of hate, and destruction, because you can't have peace while you have rebellious attitudes. Once the attitude of hate and destruction is removed we can have peace. Elohim is peace; that's how God is. God is peace, that's how He thinks. So the only way to have peace is to get rid of everything else that is not in unity with God.

Going back to Genesis 3:16. Now God is going to address the woman, Eve. This is the curse, the outcome or the penalty for her sin. It will affect all women from this point forward. To the woman He, God, said, I will greatly multiply your 'sorrow'; now that is 'pain, labor, hardship in family relationships, sorrow in emotions', sorrow in the mind because there is a penalty here and it's spiritual. It's about a penalty in the mind; and, adding to that, your conception, in pregnancy; in pain, hardship you shall bring forth children; so there is a mental anguish that's going to take place but there is a physical penalty as well, the pain of giving birth to children.

Now, this mental anguish for mothers doesn't really stop. There is a joy that is from giving birth to a child but a mother soon finds out, as does a father, that there is joy in children but there is an emotional penalty that is paid as well. Because as a child grows you try to protect them, you do everything to try to protect them from what you consider is dangerous for that child, but they do get to an age where they have their own thinking and their own reasoning and their own judgments about what is right and wrong and your opinion is nothing... ...absolutely nothing. You become in opposition to them almost. And it's something that's been built in all teenagers, nobody is immune from this. This has been going on for 6,000 years with people going to teenagers. Nowadays they don't have to be in the teens to develop these attitude, it can happen a lot younger. It's called a spirit of rebellion, and that spirit of rebellion is about the person wanting to make their own decisions, what is right in their own eyes.

And what I've found and what I've learned - and it took me a hard lesson to learn it - was that during a period of when a child is young, as a father you could transfer our thoughts and your beliefs to the child and the child accepted them in humility, the child thought the parent knew what they were talking about. Then it came to a period of time where all of a sudden your view or your opinion or the way you saw it, the child started to say, "Well, I don't see it that way," and I found it was very difficult for me because I realized I was much of the problem because I tried to continue to force my view, my opinion onto the child who didn't want it. And as it says, someone convinced against their will is still unconvinced still.  And all of a sudden there was contention because I was trying to force my view, my way and the child was wanting to go their way. And therefore this emotional sorrow, this pain and hardship, I felt a lot of it and I know my wife has as well because that is going to happen in all families, that's just the way that it is.

There is an upside to that, that they do grow out of it and there comes a point in time where they start to see that what you were trying to do for them was for their good, but that can vary in many years from whenever to whenever; it can take a long time for some, others come out of it earlier and see that whatever you were trying to do was for their good. So there is this sorrow that is going to be paid and it's emotional sorrow and it's painful.

One of the most painful things that I've felt is to watch someone suffer and there is nothing you can do about it. It's a painful, painful thing because the natural instinct of a human person is to intervene; you want to intervene and protect and save. It's a natural tendency within family. But it's painful because there comes a point where there is nothing you can do – absolutely nothing – and you have to watch suffering. Well God has watched suffering for 6,000 years. He's watched suffering before then because He has watched the suffering of Satan and the rebellious angels, because they suffer too. They suffer, only they don't realize it and don't recognize it. But God has had to witness that and now He's witnessing the suffering of man, man making up for himself what is right and wrong and going against God. But that's the way they were created, but God sees what He's doing with His people, is to show us and for us to see that we can be saved from this suffering by developing the mind of God.

Going on in verse 16 ...your desire/your longing shall be for your husband, so this is a desire within a woman that God says, you are looking... a woman will look for support, that will want the man to support and help. And it's a desire that women have, that they want a husband that will love them and support them and nurture them. ...and he shall 'rule', and that word is 'have dominion or reign' over you. Why is that? Because of the natural carnal mind a man thinks he is superior. That shouldn't surprise men. Mankind, most men, the majority of men – I won't say all – the vast majority of men (I haven't come across anyone that hasn't yet), think they're better than women. That's just the way that it is, that's the way man thinks, he's built himself up. He has this superior attitude, and we can see it in society.

We should be able to see it in various aspects of the world... where men are far superior, far superior in their thinking and make women do horrible things...horrible things that they do, because women are less, women aren't even allowed to talk in certain groups, and when they meet they divide up. Because you're a woman, you're over there, and we're men...we're MEN, superior. It's disgusting! Because it's the natural carnal mind, has nothing to do with God, it's about the mind, what man chooses.

I want to read something from the post that Mr. Weinland put out a week or so ago:

[1] "....In the Church now and into the future, God is removing the “curse” that started in the beginning due to the sins of Adam and Eve.

Some in the Church are still battling this..."

Why? Why would a man still be battling about the ordination of women or that women are equal to men? Because it's a spiritual matter. Because a man, using his natural carnal mind, is selfish and he thinks he's better! So that's the battle...but even within the Church we should know better. But we're going to fight it because of our background and because of who we are. We're natural, and it does take time! We've got to fight it though. If we're not fighting against this superior attitude, men, we're not going to overcome it and we'll always think women are less than we are.

"Some in the Church are still battling this and being tried by it..."

So it's a battle in the mind for some...a battle in the mind. And it's not going to go away easily. Do you think that over the 6,000 years that this attitude and prejudice in the man's thinking is going to be overcome in a year or two or three or four? Don't think so. It's like any sin, it's going to take years! It's going to go on into the Millennium. It's not easy! And during the hundred years when men are resurrected and they have to learn the truth, do you think it's going to be just [snaps fingers], "Ah, yes, of course! That's obvious!" No, because it's built into the mind! It's going to be a battle for man, it's going to be a battle! The most important thing though is if you are being tried and tested by this that you battle it, that you fight it, that you battle against it! That's the secret of being in the Church, that's the beauty of it, is that you can fight against it, you can fight against it. I get encouraged by it because knowing who I am and knowing what's wrong with me and aspects of what's wrong with me – I don't see it all  - that's a great thing because you can have those thoughts and you go, "Oh, that's wrong! God says this and I'm going this way!" It's a great thing to fight! It is a great thing to fight, there is a joy in fighting because you know God can conquer the self in you if you're willing to fight it.

Going on in that...

"...although this truth began to be delivered to the Church more than two years ago. This affects how husbands sometimes “think” it is permissible to treat a woman in a controlling manner as though they (women) are in subjection to such demands or in how they might speak in a commanding manner when they have no right to do so."

Now, I've experienced this within the Church in times past where men in the Church had come up and virtually told me that I need to take control of my wife! And I would say, "She's an independent person! If you've got an issue with her you should go and talk to her." Not many did, because you see, it's a superior thing. A man thinks that all women should be subject to them and that a man's opinion is better than any woman's opinion. Not about a husband and wife, just women in general. It's a disgusting thing when you think about it but that is the thoughts of men. Women, whether they're your wife or not, they are less than a man, and that's the perception of mankind.

So men tend to speak in a commanding manner and a disrespectful way towards women, not just their wives, to women, putting them below the man. Now only there is no right to do this but it is also sin because it's coming from the natural carnal mind of pride, lifting the self up.

Verse 17 – Now God goes and addresses the man, Adam. Then to Adam, He said, Because you have heeded/listened and acted to the voice of your wife, because Adam had a choice. Eve didn't make Adam do anything, he just gave in. He did what he did because of his choice; it was his choice. ...and have eaten of the tree which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it: so it's about the command... cursed/bitter curse is the ground for your sake; in toil, pain, labor, hardship and sorrow you shall eat of it, so in other words, God was not going to provide a beautiful garden where fruit just naturally grew beautifully, you're going to have to labor now, you're going to have to work. So it's in the sweat of the brow all the days of your life... Now, in today's society we go to Cole's or Woolworth's or one of the other shopping centers and go and get a can or long life milk or whatever it is, but originally there were no Cole's or supermarkets, you have to toil, you've got to plow... if you want carrots you're going to have to plow the ground and you're going to have to plant the seed and you're going to have to keep all insects away and all the weeds and when they grow you can then consume them. There is no easy way around this! This is about toil and labor and the majority of mankind's history is that someone is toiling and laboring to produce food for the self or for the family. So God says, "Well, now that's your job, man, this is your curse, you're going to have labor, you're going to have to work to eat, work to survive."

So God had provided a perfect environment for mankind to live in, an enclosure that had all the fruits to consume, but now mankind would have to work hard to provide for himself and his family to eat food.

Verse 18 – Both thorns and thistles shall bring forth, in other words, cause to grow for you, and you shall eat the herb of the field.

Verse 19 -  And in the sweat of your face, this is hard work, this is labor, you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground; so this is a lifelong experience. From this point forward you're going to have to labor and work until the day you die, because you've got to work to eat. If you don't eat you die. ...for out of it you were taken: for dust you are, physical, and dust you shall return. That's the curse that was on man. He's going to have to labor.

Now there is also... on a spiritual level there is a labor here that is going to have to take place, because there is anxiety. We talk today about stress, and for man, because of the way he's built, the way he thinks, it is a stressful environment. Stress is a common part of today's life because of the way things are geared. Satan's system is built up about acquiring. Anything you may you have the opportunity to use, underneath someone is trying to get it from you. Deep down. If the government is not trying to take more so it can spend more, someone is trying to get you to spend your money to take something from you, because the more that they can take from you the more that they get for themselves. It's called profit. Because that's just the way that Satan's system is, Babylon and confusion, a way built on get. So man is going to have to labor his whole life.

Verse 20 - And Adam called his wife's name Eve, which means life, because she was the mother of all living, all humans.

Verse 21 – Also, for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, animal hide, and clothed them. So God provided for them on a physical level because they were naked and they had put on leaves, which were temporary. So God had made them special clothing from an animal hide and He'd clothed them. But also for us, brethren, we should learn from this that God in His mercy provides us a spiritual covering for mankind – that has been provided – that is Passover. And our sins can be covered by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. So God has again here provided physically for Adam and Eve but in the future would provide for them a spiritual covering for their sin, for the sin of rebellion.

All sin, whatever sin it is that we commit, is rebellion. Simple. Because we're going against what God said, what God instructed.

Verse 22 – Then the LORD God, Yahweh Elohim, said, Behold, the man has become like one to know good and evil. Now, the word 'us' there has actually been added, but it's not actually in scripture, because when they did the translation Elohim is plural as if there is more than one, so the real reading should be, Then the LORD God said, Behold, the man has become like one to know good and evil, in other words, decide for themselves what is right and wrong. So that's the problem, that's what they wanted, they wanted to work it out for themselves. Well, God says, well now they've made this decision, they've become somebody that wants to choose for themselves what is right and wrong. ...and now, lest he put out his hand and take from the tree of life, and eat, symbolically meaning consume the truth, the word of God, have access to God, have access to God's spirit – because the tree of life was about God's spirit, and here they are trying to go out by themselves and try to consume both. Because you know, the mind of man would be, "Well, I've eaten this one, and if I can get back in the garden I want to go back to the tree of life, I want to consume that !"  Because that's the way man is, he wants both parts... and live forever:

Adam and Eve had decided for themselves what they thought was right and wrong.

Verse 23 - Therefore the LORD God sent him out of the Garden of Eden to till, to work and to serve the ground from which he was taken. In other words to be a slave to the ground. Man is a slave to the ground. You have to labor to acquire food. Even if you have fruit trees you've got to prune, you've got to work, you know, you've got insects, you've got weeds, there is labor involved.

So mankind is now slave to the earth because you have to provide for yourself. God has put it out there but now we have to work at it, whereas before God was the provider. Mankind is now a servant to the ground. If we don't work it to produce food we will die. They were cut off from God's spirit and a personal relationship with God. Now, that's more horrendous, but at that point they probably didn't realize what was really happening in that sense. But for us, brethren, it's the same. To be cut off on a physical level in the sense of wherever you are it doesn't really matter, but to be cut off on a spiritual level, what a disaster! What a disaster to be cut off from a relationship with God! Mankind is cut off from God's spirit, from spiritual knowledge symbolized by the tree of life. So that is mankind.

Now, that is one of the reasons why when it comes to certain things in politics and leaders we need to be very careful that we don't condemn. Most of them will lie and they'll cheat and they'll do other stupid things in the sense of go against God's word, but it's not our role to judge another person or to condemn them for what they do. For example, legalizing prostitution, legalizing homosexuality, legalizing gambling, legalizing all these different things that they do, abortion, whatever, we should know that it's wrong but we don’t go out and judge people for it or condemn people for it. We can discern that that is a stupid action that is against God but that's it, because we're being called to judge the self, to watch our thinking. And God said we're not to criticize authorities and pull them down. Yes, we know they're going to do stupid things. Why do we know they're going to do stupid things? Because they've been born with the natural carnal mind that's hostile to God, not subject to the law of God and indeed can't be. So why would we have any expectation other than the fact they're going to do stupid things?  Really! Why would we raise a higher standard up for them? We can't! Because they're using their natural carnal mind without God's spirit and they're going to follow the natural course.

So here in verse 24 - So He, God, drove/cast out the man and He placed the Cherubim, an angel, at the east of the Garden of Eden and a flaming sword, which was symbolic of death. If you come back you're going to die, because that's what it's really about, which is turning every way to guard against the tree of life. In other words, you're not going to have access to God's knowledge, you're not going to have that access to what is right and wrong on a spiritual level, you just chose to sort it out for yourself, now you're going to have to live with the consequences of that.

We'll go to 2 Corinthians 10:3. Exciting, isn't it? I found that very exciting, the fact that you can see what God has done and worked with the three groups, that Satan has been cursed and there is penalty and things are going to happen to him and what his penalty was; then you can see the penalty for Adam and the penalty for Eve. And you can see it in society. We should be able to see all of these things taking place.

In 2 Corinthians 10:3 – Paul addresses the Church about this battle that we covered in Romans 7 and 8. For though we walk in the flesh, in other words, we're physical human beings, we, in the Church, do not war according to the flesh: so we don't fight and hurt others on a physical level. This is not about a physical fighting and getting weapons and having guns and knives.

Verse 4 – These are really outlining the purpose of why you were called into the Church of God, and something to always remember, this is the purpose why you're in the Church, why I'm in the Church. This is the real reason. ...(For the weapons, in other words, what we fight with, of our warfare are not carnal, in other words, they're not about thinking selfishly on a physical level, but mighty in God, and the reason is that we have God's spirit, for the pulling down of strongholds; sin that has held us captive for all these years). Until the day we were called and the day we were baptized we were in bondage, in Egypt, we were captive to our own thinking. And guess what? We still are in lots of things we don't even know about, we're captive to our prejudices and the way we think about things.

Verse 5 – so we've got God's spirit, God can do it in us for the pulling down of these strongholds, the sin that holds us captive in our thinking, the Casting down arguments... Now, what is casting down arguments? Human reasoning, the way we reason things out that God says by the power of His spirit we can cast this stupid thinking down, this human reasoning, how we rationalize and say, "Oh,  yeah, well, add all this together and..." that's human reasoning. We try to work it all out, our reasoning, especially when it comes to sin. ...and every high thing that exalts itself lifts itself up in our thinking, against the knowledge of God, truth. We raise our thinking up against the truth because we think we know more, or we add to it, because that's the way we are. And what do we have to do? Why are we in the Church? ...bringing every, every thought into captivity, to the obedience of Christ; that's the purpose of being in the Church. We are to bring every thought that we have on a carnal level into captivity, we're to get it and discipline it quickly. So the purpose of why we're in the Church is to change our thinking; it's called repentance.

Verse 6 – And being ready, 'being ready' is actually 'to be aware' of sin. Because most of our life we can live that we're not even aware we're sinning, we're not actually aware of our prejudices, we're not aware of our biases and our... all those different things that we have, we don't actually see them. But it says here ...being ready, well, to be ready you're going to have to be aware of it. If we're aware we gossip, if we're aware whether we exaggerate or lie, if we're aware we criticize authority, well, being aware of it is half of the battle. Says you've got to be ready to punish, which is to pull down, to reject it, all disobedience, because God says you're not to criticize, God says you're not to be prejudice. So we're to be ready, to be aware, to be spiritually aware and to be ready to fight. ...all disobedience, to punish every thought, when your obedience is fulfilled. If we let our thoughts wander away from what God states is true we go back into the captivity of our human reasoning. We should catch the thought early and deal with it, or deal with them by the power of God's spirit. God is the only one that knows what is right and wrong. We by nature are wrong. As long as we can accept that, we're wrong in our thinking by nature, and if we're aware of that and we lean on God's understanding we'll get through this.

We're going to have a look at... having a look at the time. I think I'll move over to one part and then if we've got time we'll go back.

The problem with mankind should be obvious to us because the problem with us is the same as the problem with mankind – human reasoning. Mankind wants to choose for himself what is right and wrong, what is good and evil. Mankind does not understand that the natural man cannot know what is right and wrong based on its own thinking.

If you went out to somebody and told them that, "You don't know what's right and wrong," you're just going to be mocked. Now, that's not our job, our job is to look at ourselves. Only God knows what is best for His creation. Today we see the same problem in mankind being revealed in society, but we also see this same problem being revealed in some brethren, a few, that leave God's fellowship, because it's the same thing. And I want to go into that a little bit.

They choose for themselves what is right and wrong, what is good and evil based on their own reasoning, because once you start to analyze what you think is right and wrong we are in, and by fact, raising ourselves up above God. If you ever think, well, "What goes wrong? Why does somebody leave the Church?" Because I've had those thoughts myself over time, and over time I've come to learn various things. The first one is it is about government, but the reality is it's about God governing a person's thinking, because the moment a person stops fighting the fight – which is government, about God governing the thoughts – we then start to reason and work things out for ourselves, and the end result will be we will leave fellowship with God because we've raised ourselves up, we know better than God, what God has said through His Church and in His Church, we're no longer focusing on the self, what might be wrong with us and our thinking, we're not disciplining the thought, bringing it into captivity anymore, and what do we do? We look out and we what? Did what Adam and Eve did, blame others.

We blame others. We stop fighting the internal battle. Anybody that has left God's Church has stopped fighting the spiritual battle in the mind, they no longer are disciplining themselves, being governed by God, God's spirit governing their life, and therefore the end result will be, the only result can be what? The natural carnal mind has to start working out what's right and wrong, and the end result will be you will leave a relationship with God and God's people, because that's the outcome. It's the only outcome that could happen.

They choose to no longer believe what God has said. They no longer desire to fight the selfishness within themselves, and that's the real issue. The moment we stop fighting the selfishness within us, not being aware of what we're doing, not being aware of the sin that lies within us, we will stop focusing on ourselves and our personal growth and we'll start to look out at others and we'll do an Adam and Eve, we'll start to say, "Well, that's this..." or, "They made me do it..." or, "That's why I did this..." because there is no longer a self-discipline going on through the power of God's spirit. They now find it easier to look out and judge others in the Church rather than bring every thought into captivity. They disagree with the way they are being led, they disagree with God. They take to themselves the choice of what they believe is right and wrong for themselves. By their actions...by their actions, when somebody leaves God's Church and fellowship, and we pray God grant them repentance and they come back because we know... we love them, we want them to be in a relationship with God, we want them to be in a relationship with us, but the reality is they've made a choice to no longer fight the self. They state by their action that they know better than God's Church. That's what they're really saying. They no longer believe God's Church, what God's Church says and what the ministry says. They know better than Jesus Christ because it's Jesus Christ that feeds God's Church, and they actually are saying they know better than God Himself who gives truth to Jesus Christ who gives it to the Church. So in other words, they know better than God, just like Adam and Eve, just like Lucifer who thought he knew better than God.

By not heeding what God states is right and wrong, good and evil, by choosing for ourselves what we think is right and wrong, leads to the commandments of men. So if you look back in the Bible where it talks about the commandments of men, it's really the commandments of men versus the commandments of God. Now, what are the commandments of men? Commandments of men are a man or a woman using the natural carnal mind to work out what is best. That's what it really is. So we have all these laws. So, for example, we know various commandments of men, you're not allowed to do this, you're not allowed to do that, because that's what they think is best, but it's not about what God says. So God says that if someone is to rape another person they are best to be put to sleep so they can be resurrected and there's the potential that you could save that mind so they could enter Elohim. But no, the commandments of men are, no, we will put them in jail amongst a group of other people that have done things, and we'll leave them there, we'll fund them all, and maybe after a few years they'll come out and they might change. Because the natural carnal mind can't see itself! Because without God's spirit it can't!

So you can see why we need the government of God. We in the Church can see we need a new government, but mankind can't, so we can't condemn them in the sense of saying you're all this, because they're just being natural. They are just being natural. And so mankind will set out and set up all these commandments, all these rules that he thinks is best for others, he just will. You know, like you can steal something from  somebody and you can go to court, and God says very clearly what should happen when somebody steals from another person, God says you've got to compensate back to the person you stole from. Well in society, depending on how much you stole and whether you've got a good lawyer, you might get away with being...well, you normally don't go to jail for stealing unless you've got a gun and you don't have to pay anything back normally, and normally you could be out within two or three weeks anyway and you probably could be, while you're in, you could be planning the next one. That's because that's the thinking of man, you don't have to pay anything back. But God says, in anything you take from somebody you must pay back, more than once, because there's got to be a penalty, a physical penalty that has to be paid. So the commandments of men rule our society.

Let's look at Jude 5. We're going to look at one aspect about rebellion. There is a penalty for unrepented rebellion, for going against God, becoming and choosing to remain anti-Christ. Now, I know at different times when certain things happen people don't understand about being anti-Christ. Anti-Christ is when a person or an individual chooses not to allow God the Father or Jesus Christ to live in them, through them, therefore they're against Christ, they become anti-Christ. So someone that's actually disfellowshipped and has gone against God's way, thinking they know better, are anti-Christ because Christ can no longer live in them. They become anti-Christ.

So why would somebody want to fellowship with someone that is anti-Christ? They're against you because they're against Christ. Why would we want to spend a lot of time with them. So the reason they are disfellowshipped is so that they would hopefully repent and come back and allow Jesus Christ to live back in them. But if they don't, they remain anti-Christ.

Satan has earned his penalty, which is going to be eternal death. Jude 5 – But I want to remind you, it's talking about the Church, that word is 'to put you in remembrance', though you once knew this, so it's a reminder you know this, but I want to remind you of something... to perceive it, not just to know it but to perceive it, to actually understand it, that the LORD, Yahweh Elohim, having saved, and that is to 'keep safe, sound, to rescue from a danger or from destruction', the people out of the land of Egypt. So we know the story about God rescuing, calling out the people, His people, out of Egypt, out of bondage, which is symbolic of us being called out of spiritual bondage. So we know the parallel. Afterward destroyed those who did not believe; here Jude is saying, well, I want to remind you on a spiritual level that God has called you and He's working with you to save you and He's called you out of this bondage, out of this slavery on a spiritual level, but just remember on a physical level what happened to them, they did not believe God. In the end they didn't believe what God said to them and what did God do? God had to destroy them. Well, he's reminding us, "Well, if you want to disobey God, go in rebellion and not believe what God has placed in the Church, God has to deal with it." God has to deal with it. Now there is opportunity, of course, for the hundred years, we just don't know everyone's life, that hopefully in that period, if they're resurrected, they'll be given that opportunity, which I'm sure the vast majority will and they'll see their disbelief.

We must continue to believe God and the only way we can continue to believe God is to recognize we have a natural carnal mind and to set out every day to fight it, to sacrifice it, because that's a level of humility, acknowledging that we're wrong. That's humility, we acknowledge we're wrong, and if you're humble God can teach us. True? God says if you're humble, humble spirit, humble attitude, we'll absorb what God teaches the Church. So we must continue to believe God, we're not to turn to our human reasoning in things.

Now, often within the Church what happens is that something will take place and we don't know why or how, but God says you're to wait. "You're to wait on Me." God will reveal it in time, but because of our human reasoning we will start to analyze and work out and "Maybe..." and, "Potentially..." and come up with all these different scenarios which are what? Human reasoning. What we should do is wait for God to tell us. Now it is a hard thing, it's not easy. It is a hard thing, it's meant to be hard. That's called testing; it's a test! "Will you believe what I've said and what's happened? Will you believe it?" what God has told us? "Or do you want to add to it and try to analyze it and work it all out in your own carnal mind?" And you'll get it wrong, I will get it wrong because you're using human reasoning. So we should wait on God ever how long that is, and one day you'll look back, like I did with the apostasy, didn't know what was happening – I look back and I go, "Ahhhh..." because God has revealed it all. But at the time I didn't have a clue what was happening. It wasn't until years and years later, until I was awakened in 2005 that I really went, "Ahhhh...That's what happened!" but it took that long. But so we now should wait on God, see what God is doing and wait for Him; it'll work out perfectly as God planned it, absolutely perfectly. And at one point in time we'll be able to look back and go, "Yep, it's all logical, practical, I can see it all," but at the time it's not necessarily easy.

Jude here is using this example that once called out of bondage, if we do not trust and believe God, walk in faith, (which is what Terry went through), we will be destroyed. So if we stop believing God we're going to be destroyed, and the potential is a spiritual destruction in the end, because you know, there is opportunity for people, but if we keep going down that path we will be destroyed because God's got no choice. If we do not believe the truth and start to choose for ourselves what we think is right and wrong, what God should and shouldn't be doing, we will be cut off from God and it's going to have to be repented of.

Verse 6 – and he's giving more examples - And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, and that is 'first place, rule or magistry', so where they were, they didn't keep it. ...but left their own abode/dwelling place, He, God, has reserved them in everlasting chains, which is in a bond or bond or hold, under darkness for the judgment of the great day. So the rebellious angels still have to face a judgment. Jude is saying here, "Well, here is one example, the people came out of Egypt. Here is another one of rebellion, the people didn't believe, the angels rebelled against God."

Verse 7 – going on to another example - As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having giving themselves over to sexual immorality, now, that really is saying 'to go a whoring, giving one's self over to fornication', so it's a sexual perversion. Now sexual perversion isn't just homosexuality, it's a perversion in the thinking. ...and gone after strange flesh, now that word 'strange flesh' is actually a bad translation. It's better put, 'gone after another mind, another way of thinking'. So it's another way of thinking. Not the way that God says things should be, these people in Sodom and Gomorrah have gone the way they wanted to, the carnal mind, the way of thinking. That's a better translation. ...and are set forth for as an example, so here it is, there is an example of what's going to happen if you're going to go after this strange way of thinking, suffering the vengeance, or execution of a sentence, the punishment of eternal fire. Now, eternal fire is symbolic of death. When you see the word 'gehenna fire' or 'everlasting fire', it's really just talking about a death; it's called the second death. So here is the examples of not having faith, not believing God. Here is the example of rebellion, not keeping what God has given us. Like the angels were given an area, we've been given God's spirit to nurture, to keep in our temple, in God's Temple, we are the Temple. We've been given it, we should look after it, and here in Sodom and Gomorrah these people went out to whoring after their own thinking, a strange way of thinking, another mindset. So we're to guard against all these because what Jude is saying the end result will be, we'll suffer the same outcome...it's got to be destroyed, it's got to be set aside for a final judgment and that final judgment is eternal death.

If we have any relationship outside of the truth we commit spiritual fornication. Now, spiritual fornication is idolatry, because we're having another relationship, we're worshipping, putting something else up before God. What does fornication...what does spiritual fornication earn? Death. That's what God says. So it's a serious matter, and coming to the Church and being part of the Body is a great joy and a great excitement, but it carries also great responsibility, it carries responsibility. That responsibility is to make sure we are aware of ourselves, what we say, what we do, the way we think, and by the power of God's spirit to work on the self, not to look out at others and judge or condemn or gossip or pull down or accuse others of anything. It's about looking at the self and judging the self.

Verse 8 - Likewise also these 'dreamers defile the flesh', now this is 'to be defiled with a sensual image'. So what's a dreamer? A dreamer is someone that thinks things. When people say, "You're daydreaming!" What are you doing when you're daydreaming? It's in the mind, you're allowing the mind to think about things, and normally it's to do with pride or vanity lifting itself up .

I remember my daydreams when I was a teenager. I always kicked the winning goal.  And I remember always – because I played a lot of basketball – I was doing the Michael Jordan: the buzzer is just about to go and Wayne jumps up and he shoots and wins...and Wayne's a hero! Well, that's dreaming, that's day dreaming, you're letting the mind go. What's that all about? That's about pride! That's elevating the self up.

So here it says, likewise, these dreamers defile the flesh, now this talking about sensual images in the thinking, so this is perverted relationships outside of what God says. This is sexual in nature and it's sensual, it's about pleasing the self with these thoughts. ...reject/despise authority, government. So when you go down this path of allowing your mind to wander you end up despising or rejecting authority. So that's why we have to be careful about what we say about people in government. Yes, they do wrong things in the sense of what they do, but the individual, we should never judge and condemn, we're supposed to be looking at ourselves. Because if we were them, guess what? We'd be doing exactly the same! It's political! All the decisions of government are based on whether you can get a vote. Now abortion will be legalized if the people with their carnal minds, there is enough of them, say they want it. The politician isn't going to get up and say, "I'm against it," and 90% want it, because he's not going to get elected, he's going to be called unemployed.  And therefore he's got no salary, no perks, no car, no nothing. If the people want abortion the people will get it. If people want gay marriage, they're going to get it because the natural carnal mind goes down that path and politicians will give in to the majority. That's why they're called politicians, it's about lobbying, people with money. We're not to get into condemning them, we're to judge and condemn our self, our thinking.

Goes on there and says, ...speak evil, now, to speak reproachfully, rail at, revile against, or make fun of dignitaries; so we've got to be very careful about what we say. That word 'dignitaries' is 'something that could belong to God or does belong to God', 'something belonging to God'. So if we raise ourselves up and think we know better of God's government, the ministry, or speak against it in any way, revile against it, we are speaking evil of dignitaries, something that belongs to God. It's God's Church, God appoints the ministry. Now, we in our own reasoning can work out that we don't think that that decision was the right decision, "I'm sure Mr. Weinland got it wrong in raising that person up," because we're leaving God out of the picture. It's God the Father, Jesus Christ to His government in the Church; that's where it comes from. Now we should have faith in that. And we don't always know why someone is ordained. We have no real idea. God knows what He's doing, we don't know, cause what do we do, we go back to our natural carnal mind and rely on it's reasoning's.

So the warning here that Jude is saying, we need to be careful of our thinking. We need to watch it. We're not to go day dreaming and dreaming and thinking outside of what God says is right and wrong. We're not to criticize decisions made by God's government. We shouldn't criticize other people in government, in authority.

Continue on there...they did not desire to govern themselves or to be governed. Now, that's the problem within the Church, why people leave. They don't really want to govern themselves firstly, they get tired of it, they stop fighting the battle and they don't want to be governed. Because if you're not governing yourself through the power of God's spirit you can't be governed because you're going to form a view or an opinion that you're right and that they're wrong, because that's the only way, that's the natural carnal mind.

Don't we do that with politicians? Where someone makes a decision to flood a particular river, and we'll all have a view that, "What are they doing?" One group says, "They have to flood the river because you've got to grow the crops and you've got to be able to pump the irrigation and all the wildlife," and someone says, "You can't flood the river we're not going to have any water for our toilets," and everyone's got an opinion because we work on our reasoning. So we've got to be very careful the way we talk about others in authority.

People that leave the Church are not governing themselves any longer and they will not be governed, they can't be. What happened to Lucifer? You couldn't govern Lucifer because he wanted to be the government. They don't like to be told what to do, what is right and wrong. It's reasonably straight forward on a spiritual level if you can grasp what's going on. They give themselves over to what they think is right and wrong based on their reasoning. They reject God's government in their life and set their own standards for themselves, and you'll find that they set standards for others, what you should be doing, not about what they should be doing according to God's word. They reject authority and they reject the truth, that's the outcome of this rebellious attitude.

So we won't go back into the rest of that, I'll leave it for another time.

~~~end

1. Extraordinary 4½ years – Pt. 1: Posting May 30, 2012 – www.ronaldweinland.com

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